EP#110: The Final Episode: Goodbye Girls Twiddling Knobs

What does it mean to keep making, caring and staying human when everything feels like it’s falling apart?

In this final episode of the Girls Twiddling Knobs podcast, Isobel Anderson speaks directly and unfiltered to you, the listeners, with honesty, clarity and care.

This is not a neat goodbye or a highlight reel. It is a reckoning. A permission slip. And a series of parting truths offered to women in music, male allies, music organisations and colleagues in higher education.

Isobel reflects on the wider context we are living in: dark times, eroding systems, the devaluing of art and the quiet shame so many creatives carry around money, security and survival. She argues for doing less but doing it with integrity. For making more than we consume. For listening more than we shout. And for staying close to creativity not because it will save the world, but because it keeps us human.

You’ll hear candid advice about:

• The real trade-offs between making art and making a living
• Why streaming is a dead end for most musicians
• When to treat music like a business and when not to
• Investing in skills, backing yourself and stopping the wait for permission
• Letting other people own their shit
• Why organisations must take digital communication seriously if they want real impact
• The role men must play as active, imperfect allies
• The heartbreak and hope of higher education, and when it might be time to build something else

The episode closes with gratitude, acknowledgements and a reflection on legacy. Girls Twiddling Knobs may be ending, but listening, making, creating and caring do not.

Stay bold. Stay unapologetic. Don’t wait for permission. Stay human.

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Girls Twiddling Knobs has ended, but you can stay connected to Isobel's artistic work here.

Girls Twiddling Knobs was hosted by Isobel Anderson and produced by Isobel Anderson and Jade Bailey from Nov 2020-Jan 2026 and will remain live on all major podcast platforms throughout 2026.

We are grateful to the British Library who have archived the podcast in their Sound and Vision Collection.

Learn more about the Girls Twiddling Knobs legacy here.

Watch this episode on YouTube

Explore more episodes here.

Listen on Spotify.

Transcript

00:01.56
Isobel Anderson
Hello knob twiddlers and welcome to this final episode of Girls Twiddling Knobs, which obviously feels very strange to say on one level and on another level, not strange at all, because i have made a point of talking about this for a long time And going through the various layers of process in order for this ending to feel like a natural close, not abrupt and not take anyone off guard, including myself. Nevertheless.

00:38.61
Isobel Anderson
It still feels odd to be making this episode a final episode of Girls Twiddling Knobs. This episode is going to be off the cuff.

00:49.16
Isobel Anderson
It's going to be what I want to say to you as the listeners of this podcast And it's going to actually mean something. So it's not just going to be a bunch of thank you for listening. No, no, no. There will be that at the end. But I'm actually going to talk about some stuff that I think is important. um I'm going to talk to you if you're all women in music.

01:14.19
Isobel Anderson
I'm going to talk to you if you have been tuning in. as a male ally. I'm going to talk to you if you've been tuning in and you are in any way part of or run a music organisation and I'm going to talk to you if you have been tuning in and you are um one of my academic colleagues in higher education.

01:37.75
Isobel Anderson
I know that the podcast is um has a listenership that spans those different um kind of walks of life and categories of um interest.

01:49.69
Isobel Anderson
So I want to talk to you all as directly as I can and there will be some overlap. But before I get into talking to these different parts of the listenership, like I just said, I want to just kind of confront something in general, which is that...

02:07.41
Isobel Anderson
I probably don't have to tell you, but we are living through dark times. There are systems of power and oppression that in the West have largely gone undisclosed or covert and nevertheless incredibly insidiously run through pretty much everything to do with our culture, our society, and especially how we operate overseas.

02:36.55
Isobel Anderson
We're living in a time where those systems are no longer and hidden. They are in plain sight. And it's destabilizing.

03:21.29
Isobel Anderson
And I think that something i I want to first start with is we need to stop being overwhelmed by our inability to save the world. And we need to start taking care of each other.

03:34.25
Isobel Anderson
So we need to nourish our communities, our loved ones, our local landscapes, ourselves. And we need to do little and often.

03:45.06
Isobel Anderson
and We need to be activists through actively reconnecting with what makes us human. So we need to cultivate things like empathy, creativity, compassion, curiosity, not because that's what's going to, in quotation marks, save us.

04:01.19
Isobel Anderson
but because it matters. It just matters that we do those things as we move through what will be a very, very difficult time. um We need to make things more than we consume.

04:15.06
Isobel Anderson
We need to listen more than we shout. We need to stop trying to optimise and instead start disrupting. And we need to be getting organised at being messy.

04:25.91
Isobel Anderson
And the reason I start with this is because I think it feeds into everything I'm about to say with regards to if you're an artist, if you're an organisation, if you're a male ally, if you're working in our education.

04:39.13
Isobel Anderson
um In general, We need to let go of trying to fix things and therefore being overwhelmed and not fixing things and looking at what we can do in small, consistent ways, not even because they might change anything, but because it's just the right thing to do.

04:58.88
Isobel Anderson
um One of the the sort of sayings, or it might even be a line in a poem, I i came across this on Instagram and it was it really helped embed a ah kind of helpful way of approaching um the last year of my life, but also hopefully going into the future, which is even if the world were to end tomorrow, I would still plant a tree.

05:21.44
Isobel Anderson
And it really reminded me of how essential it is to keep doing the right thing. And that can be subjective, but what feels genuinely nourishing, fulfilling, human, rather than giving over to this sense of overwhelm.

05:41.52
Isobel Anderson
um Because i I don't necessarily believe we can fix this, we can save everything. But I really believe in us living with integrity, kindness and empathy and all those qualities that make us human.

05:54.69
Isobel Anderson
Over the last couple of decades, the value of art has been intentionally and also unintentionally eroded. So this really plays into the sense that um trying isn't good enough because it won't fix everything or it won't you know result in a huge impact.

06:17.23
Isobel Anderson
And art has been one of the um the ways that that kind of overwhelm, but also those huge systems of control. Art has been something that has been sacrificed to that.

06:28.89
Isobel Anderson
because of the sense that, well, it has no purpose or there's more important things or it's just, you know, it's not a good optimisation or use of your time or, you know, we're all so like swimming and trying to survive and et cetera, et cetera.

06:44.92
Isobel Anderson
But more than ever, um what I want to kind of flag for anyone listening is that you may be feeling ashamed, right? for maybe not having a mortgage yet or, you know, owning a house, having a pension, a car, or being able to afford to have kids or having had kids and feel like you can't afford to do right by them. You may be feeling really ashamed of that because we're living in a cost of living crisis. And that is the reality for many, many people and will be for the foreseeable. and This may have been the case, whatever path you had would have chosen, but if you chose to prioritise creativity and making art, you will likely have been made to feel that you should chalk it up to that.

07:25.40
Isobel Anderson
And as the next few years unfold, it will become harder to justify making art. You'll be told you need to keep saving. You need to keep optimising. You need to make sensible decisions.

07:38.04
Isobel Anderson
And there is nothing wrong with prioritising financial health, especially if you have dependents. But don't fall for the lie that this matters more than your spiritual and creative health, because it is what has kept so many people controlled and um distant from what makes us human.

08:00.53
Isobel Anderson
Now, again, I don't say this to simplify how complex this is. And I know that there are many, many things that impact our ability to live through creativity, curiosity, you know.

08:16.28
Isobel Anderson
But like any meaningful action, whether it be climate action, social action, art doesn't have to make an immediate life changing impact to be worth pursuing.

08:27.19
Isobel Anderson
It is worth doing simply because it makes you feel alive, present and human. So small acts of creativity each week lead to wisdom, presence, power, empathy.

09:03.88
Isobel Anderson
You actually being connected to your humanity matters an incredible amount but all of those systems will create ways to distance you from that.

09:14.88
Isobel Anderson
You are human and that is enough and capitalism will tell you otherwise. And so I guess that kind of leads me to just briefly talk about what Girls Twiddling Knobs was really about.

09:26.12
Isobel Anderson
You know, and I can say this looking back on it now um more than I could have done at the beginning of it, really. But Girls s Twiddling Knobs was never about scale for scale's sake, even though I often try to push for that. um I often pressured myself to do that.

09:42.92
Isobel Anderson
But in reality, it was actually never about that. It was an experiment in doing things differently. in building something that centred care and depth and integrity, in refusing to replicate the harms we were told were just how things work.

10:01.83
Isobel Anderson
Girls Toodling Knops proved that another way of organising and teaching and valuing people was possible. So if nothing else, I'm very, very proud of that.

10:14.44
Isobel Anderson
I am so proud of all of the people that have made that a reality. um And i hope that it acts as a little beacon of light amidst all the other little beacons of light out there of actively making something that actively doing something that disrupts, that often felt messy, that I absolutely didn't know what I was doing a lot of the time, I was trying and I was taking action and opened up doors for other people to do that through Girls s Twiddling Knobs as well.

10:50.78
Isobel Anderson
And it didn't change everything that we would want to change in music, of course not. But it matters, it really matters that we tried.

11:01.73
Isobel Anderson
And it really matters that we did in the ways that we did.

11:05.70
Isobel Anderson
So ah before I go on, i want to offer a permission slip almost in light of everything that I've just said. If you're tired, you are allowed to rest. In fact, it's imperative that you rest often.

11:20.05
Isobel Anderson
If you are overwhelmed, you are allowed to do less. In fact, I urge you to do less, but just more consistently. And if you are quietly making things away from visibility or algorithms or productivity culture, you are not failing.

11:36.19
Isobel Anderson
And if you're not making all of your money from music, you are not failing. And if you are not right now ah able to afford to buy a house or a car or save for a pension, but you have kept this little curious, creative fire burning in you, you are not failing.

12:05.82
Isobel Anderson
So I now want to speak directly to, like I said, some of the groups of our listeners for what it's worth. um I don't claim to know everything. In fact, I don't know very much. know some stuff, but not by all means everything. But for what it's worth, here's my parting thoughts.

12:27.18
Isobel Anderson
And I'm going to start with women in music. If you're listening to this and you're a woman in music, this is what I have to say to you. I want you to look at the cold, hard truth of what it means to navigate through this world as creative and make an informed decision.

12:44.38
Isobel Anderson
And that informed decision is this. If you want to make all of your income from your music or even a substantial part of your income through your music, you will have to treat your music like a business.

12:57.15
Isobel Anderson
And that means that you will have to make a product that other people want to buy. And that means that that product is not in response to what you necessarily feel or believe, although sometimes there may be overlap. But if you want that to be a consistent, reliable, sustainable income, it will be a product that responds to what other people feel and believe and value.

13:22.37
Isobel Anderson
That's just the reality of business.

13:24.39
Isobel Anderson
If you want your music to... Be centred around what you feel and believe and what you want to express. And you don't want to feel like a productivity line where you can take breaks if you're not feeling it and you can make something because you deeply, deeply feel it, regardless of how commercially successful it might be.

13:45.09
Isobel Anderson
Do not try and make music your income. Because you will have to treat it like a business. Like I said, what do I know?

13:55.63
Isobel Anderson
i am but one person, but this is my take. This is my hot take. um Goes for any artist. but You know, if you're a woman in music, see see that truth for what it is. This is the world we live in. Now, of course, there is funding, but essentially you are being trained to operate like a charity, which really,

14:14.76
Isobel Anderson
no shade, but that's the reality. You will always be at the mercy of whether there is funding and whether you tick enough boxes for them to give it out to you. That is not a business model, which is fine. You don't have to be a business, but let's be clear because a lot of the time it gets mixed up and people think they're being a business, but they're not really because they're actually relying almost 100%, if not 80% on funding, which was they had to give out to somebody and you just ticked enough boxes.

14:42.66
Isobel Anderson
Again, no shade. Like I have received funding over my music career. I'm very grateful for it. But when we look at the world as we see it today in 2026, you have to be honest and clear headed about this.

14:56.05
Isobel Anderson
If you want your income to be through your music, you are making therefore making a product that you must be able to sell to hundreds and thousands, realistically thousands of people. um And if you don't want to put your music through that,

15:10.86
Isobel Anderson
production grind um because you know that it needs to come from somewhere genuine an expression of what you feel then earn as much money as you can for as little time as possible elsewhere and keep that time that other time for your music to make something you really believe in that is my take um

15:31.71
Isobel Anderson
that on On a kind of offshoot of that, if you're someone who really wants to make your music your income, um please don't put loads of energy into streaming. um as an income um strategy is so such a time suck, touch such an em and energy suck. it's It's a myth that's put pet perpetuated by big streaming companies.

15:56.41
Isobel Anderson
If you make money from streaming, you will be very unusual, especially in 2026, and you will be being ripped off and underpaid. Don't bother is my is my advice. Again, what do I know? There will be other people that have a very different idea, but this is my advice. This is my take. You can take it or leave it. Don't bother.

16:18.05
Isobel Anderson
Build money. an audience of fans who you own the contact details of, whether it be on an email list, their phone numbers and WhatsApp groups, whatever it is, own those contact details so that you can directly communicate with your fans, grow that fan base so that you have a group of people who are actually financially connected as well as in other ways supporting your music.

16:43.93
Isobel Anderson
If you had, you see this all over the internet, but if you did have 100 true fans who actually will buy ah an album or will come to a show, that is worth so much more than 100,000 people streaming your music on Spotify.

16:58.74
Isobel Anderson
Stop chasing streams. It's a load of bollocks. It's now getting flooded with AI music anyway that they don't have to pay royalties to Let go of that. It was never built to support you. Take control of your fan base. Take control of how you can monetize your music, especially if that's what you want to do.

17:18.30
Isobel Anderson
And like I said, have a good hard think about whether you do really want to place that emphasis on your music or whether you want your music to be freely ah kept kept free for you to be expressive and real and bold and innovative and not be serving a market.

17:36.78
Isobel Anderson
It's always been the case, but I think it's even more the case. And I think unlike ever before, artists are really going to have are really having to reckon with that choice because there are the middlemen. The middlemen are and fewer.

18:00.78
Isobel Anderson
i I would advise you to to make that choice. And if you want to make your money out of music, because ah again, there's no shame in this. If you're just someone who thinks I love making music and I don't really care how I'm doing it to a certain extent, as long as I'm bashing that drum every day, as long as I'm in that studio every day, as long as I'm you know generally making music, trance music every day whatever it might be i i want to I just want to do that every day that is all good and if you're like as long as I'm composing every day it doesn't matter if it's for a film I'm not that into it doesn't matter if it's for a game that you know I'm not ever going to play it and sometimes I might get some time to do something that comes from me go and make your career and make your income in music I love that for you

18:49.61
Isobel Anderson
But if you are someone who music for you is a a really precious source of self-expression, honesty, um kind of unfiltered communication, and you don't want it to be a production line, just think clearly about how much pressure you put on your music to hit these certain um kind of markers of success that the industry may have told you matter.

19:15.76
Isobel Anderson
So that's that's my first point. But next to every woman in music listening to this, I want to reiterate something that is not going to be surprising if you've listened to the podcast, but invest in your skills. Challenge that voice that says you cannot afford that course, you cannot afford that piece of gear, you cannot afford to do that residency, you cannot afford to hire that person.

19:37.32
Isobel Anderson
Keep challenging that voice because Often when we invest in things like that, it's not it doesn't give an immediate return. It's maybe six months down the line, five years down the line that we see how empowering that was.

19:52.75
Isobel Anderson
Maybe it built some skill sets which are empowering themselves, but also it can just be taking action and actually moving steps forward that bring us down pathways we can't predict.

20:03.25
Isobel Anderson
So please invest in your skill set, in your equipment, in the people around you, in the spaces around you. Even if you don't know whether that's going to immediately pay back or be a success.

20:17.33
Isobel Anderson
It's actually more about you living with integrity that if you want to do something, you you back yourself, you allow yourself to do it.

20:28.12
Isobel Anderson
Which leads leads me to the next thing, which is don't wait for permission. It's so common that I and also many, many, many people listening to this podcast and taking my programs have been waiting for someone else to tell them, yes, you're allowed to buy that course.

20:43.09
Isobel Anderson
Yes, you're allowed to record your album, even though dot dot, dot. Yes, you're allowed to buy that synth, even though dot, dot, dot. Yes, you're allowed to make a room in your house, your recording space, even though dot, dot, dot. Yes, you're allowed to spend a morning a week making music even though dot, dot, dot.

20:59.59
Isobel Anderson
Stop waiting for permission. It's not easy. You will have to keep challenging the voice that is going to tell you, how dare you? Oh, my God, that's so outrageous. You can't afford that. You're not allowed that. how Who are you to do that?

21:12.57
Isobel Anderson
It will keep coming up. But all I can say and all I've kept banging on about on this podcast again and again is stop waiting for permission. No one's going to give it to you. And if they do, you're giving away your power if that's the only thing that means you do something.

21:27.36
Isobel Anderson
Which leads me on to my next um statement or words of advice for any women in music listening to this. You already have everything you need. You don't need an expensive piece of recording gear. You don't need to invest in Logic rather than use GarageBand. You don't need to work with an expert to record your album. You don't need to have loads and loads of time, like a whole week free where no one's in the house.

21:54.31
Isobel Anderson
You actually have everything you need already, even though there are challenges. Don't get me wrong. I'm sure that you'll be listening to this and you will have money worries and real um like restrictions on your time.

22:09.64
Isobel Anderson
and health issues and all the different things but and in on the kind of basic sense you have everything you need you can figure things out you can learn new things you can be uncomfortable and you can take one step at a time you have everything you need to do this to to make music and whatever you else is that you want to do Now, will there be systems that are working against you if you are a woman, if you're a person of colour, if you are disabled? Yes, of course.

22:42.32
Isobel Anderson
It's not to discount those. But don't trick yourself into thinking that you are not enough and that you need someone else to come and save you or help you to do it. You have everything you need already.

22:54.01
Isobel Anderson
And my final piece of advice or final words for women in music listening to this is let other people own their shit.

23:05.14
Isobel Anderson
Do not settle for bad communication. Do not settle for gaslighting. Do not settle for disrespect. Do not settle for people not taking responsibility for their part when things go wrong, when things are challenging.

23:18.84
Isobel Anderson
Let other people own their shit. Do not take responsibility for other people's bad other people's failings, essentially. We're all flawed. We're all messy.

23:29.40
Isobel Anderson
Comes back to me saying, we're human. That's good. We should be human. But therefore, let people be human. Let them own their shit. Do not overcompensate for other people.

23:40.89
Isobel Anderson
Leave work situations that do not feel nourishing, communicative, supportive, clear, boundaried. Let go of people who do not respect why that matters.

23:53.21
Isobel Anderson
Just allow people to have their own shit and and work on yours. That's all we can do. But I see so much the time and I look back on my life and I wasted so much energy take overrespons but being over-responsible for outcomes and how other people felt and how other people acted.

24:15.20
Isobel Anderson
now going to move on to organisations. If you work in an organisation, music organisation, and you are listening to this final podcast episode, this is my overriding piece of learning for you.

24:42.75
Isobel Anderson
um I ran it as a solopreneur and then had a small team um during it. So there's lots that I and cannot ever you know pretend that I um have mastered when it comes to an organisation. with organisational structures and big organisational funding and big global organisational partnerships, etc, etc. But this is one thing I can advise you on and that I see again and again is lacking when it comes to making large scale change in a lot of things, but particularly not for profit music organisations.

25:26.90
Isobel Anderson
you need to harness the mass attention grabbing tools that are at your disposal, but you haven't needed or you think that you haven't needed to use effectively because you have a brand and you have funding and you are doing important work.

25:45.66
Isobel Anderson
You are doing very, very important work and you are often doing it very effectively. But in terms of actually reaching lots and lots of people, in the way that you really could do that would be at your fingertips, I don't see enough organizations doing this.

25:59.70
Isobel Anderson
So you need to harness things and get really good at things like meta ads. I know that means giving money to companies like meta, but you're already paying role in the attention economy that these social media platforms rely on.

26:14.13
Isobel Anderson
By being present and posting, all of you are doing that. your posts aren't getting liked, your posts aren't getting viewed much and your posts aren't getting shared much because those algorithms do not reward organic content very much. You need to start being really good at marketing, at communications, but particularly online and digital marketing. And you need to get so good at it like your rent depends on it because that is how you are going to make the kind of widespread widespread systematic change as it ah as it applies to individual musicians.

26:46.58
Isobel Anderson
by actually making contact with them by actually reaching out to them by making them aware of the support that they can access by learning more from as many many musicians as you possibly can you need to start doing that and you're not and you need to start taking it as seriously as someone like me had to because my income depended on it and I was a business so um I really believe in that.

27:11.77
Isobel Anderson
Like I said, there's a lot I don't know about running a big organization. There's lots I don't know about operating in the not-for-profit area. But I do know this. You are leaving impact on the table. That's what they say in business. You're leaving money on the table. You are leaving impact on the table because you are not harnessing these big mass attention machines that do so much harm in the world. but can do so much good if we use them to make change and and make impact and reach hearts on a bigger scale.

27:56.55
Isobel Anderson
And i mean, with Girls Twiddling Knobs, a lot of the time that would be six months to six months with programme launches. But that's a very different situation to when you, say, have big Arts Council funding as an organisation. So that's my one thing that I can, that's my one piece of advice I feel like I can legitimately give to organisations and music that I think would make bigger impact and bigger change.

28:19.82
Isobel Anderson
Get really good at digital online marketing like your rent depends on it.

28:25.38
Isobel Anderson
Next, I'm going to talk to am men, the male allies listening to this podcast. So firstly, if you're listening to this podcast, fair play. That's excellent. Love it. That's brilliant.

28:36.22
Isobel Anderson
um I think it's really important that men are giving their time to thinking and caring and listening and contributing to these kinds of initiatives like Girls Drilling Knobs.

28:50.51
Isobel Anderson
So all I can say is this. Don't be afraid to be proactive. Be curious. So ask questions. Don't be afraid to ask questions. Don't be afraid to get it wrong.

29:02.01
Isobel Anderson
i i have had to be um comfortable with getting it wrong through the work I've done in Girls Twiddling Nobs because there's lots to do with gender identity that I can't identify with um and therefore I've made mistakes and I've had to accept getting it wrong there's lots to do with um for example being someone who's a global majority musician that i have no experience of and therefore I have to accept that sometimes I will get it wrong but in my attempt to be curious and to be an ally

29:34.11
Isobel Anderson
So if you're a man listening to this and you want to make a positive change when it comes to women and gender and inclusivity in music in general, please don't be afraid to ask questions and don't be afraid to be proactive and take action, get uncomfortable.

29:49.98
Isobel Anderson
and be part of the change and I really believe that the next stage of this work cannot be done by women alone. We've done, I think we've done everything we we can do as women and we really need men to now come and meet us in that, in this fight, in this work.

30:06.49
Isobel Anderson
You will benefit, believe me, because it means that it's making structures that have more care, have more equality, have fairness built in and that benefits everyone. um And it's really important that you stick your neck out and you approach people and you say, i want to help. How can I help?

30:25.73
Isobel Anderson
Don't presume that because it's a women in music space or a gender inclusion space, that there isn't a space for you as a man. There should be, there has to be. Otherwise, nothing will change.

30:37.22
Isobel Anderson
And lastly... I would love to now just address my allies and peers in higher education, in academia, I have so much admiration for you, but I am also heartbroken and I know you are too.

30:52.65
Isobel Anderson
And higher education has been pivotal in my journey as an artist, um all the way through from my A-levels up to doing a PhD, which was funded and would have been impossible otherwise.

31:09.29
Isobel Anderson
That whole journey has been so integral to me developing all of my artistry, but also I would include Girls Twiddling Knobs. I don't think I could have made Girls Twiddling Knobs with the kind of i what's intentionality and perseverance that I did had I not done a PhD, for example.

31:31.18
Isobel Anderson
I have learned from some of the most warm-hearted, intelligent, articulate, empathetic people who are professors and um teaching assistants and hourly paid lecturers.

31:46.45
Isobel Anderson
And I have been an hourly paid lecturer. And like I said, I have studied all the way up to PhD level. I have so much affection and belief in higher education, but I am heartbroken by where it has headed and it is headed.

32:04.32
Isobel Anderson
So I stand in solidarity with my academic peers, but i i need to say, um if you believe you can build a better education that is not based on bums on seats, that is not based on making promises that are not in alignment with true artistic growth,

32:25.11
Isobel Anderson
artistic growth If you believe you can make something better outside of academia, then jump ship. Try something different. Create something outside that provides genuinely transformative education that responds not just to a market trend or what people will pay for, although obviously that's always going to be the case now,

32:52.99
Isobel Anderson
but that actually has an integral um meaning behind it that genuinely develops critical thinking and artistry and experimentation and curiosity.

33:09.09
Isobel Anderson
And if you don't believe you can do that in the role that you're in, in the institution that you're in, you can build other things. It is hard, but staying in it can feel harder.

33:21.13
Isobel Anderson
If you are in an institution where you believe you are delivering quality education and you believe that you're doing all the things that I just described, then by all means, stay loyal, stay there, do the amazing work that you're doing.

33:35.77
Isobel Anderson
um But I just want to acknowledge that Higher education, the the landscape has changed. And if you're struggling in that, I get it. And I'm in solidarity with you.

33:47.44
Isobel Anderson
And it breaks my heart because I i know there would have been on ah ah a different reality. There would have been a career in higher education for me where I would have been able to operate in a way and i teach in a way.

34:03.95
Isobel Anderson
and nurture my practice in a way that would have felt um congruent and aligned and um sustainable and um meaningful.

34:16.90
Isobel Anderson
Unfortunately, I can't see that being a reality right now. um And that breaks my heart.

34:26.31
Isobel Anderson
If you're a student listening to this, or if you're someone thinking about being a student, then there are some wonderful departments and some incredibly wonderful educators in higher education.

34:37.95
Isobel Anderson
But please do your research. Please don't presume that just because it's a course that has a certain name, it's going to be what you need it to be. Be proactive in your learning and make sure that it's somewhere that feels like it will be somewhere you can grow in the way that you need to.

34:54.41
Isobel Anderson
And if you don't feel like you can find that, then don't be afraid to look for alternative forms of education. And education is a lifelong journey. and Education is a human right, just like making art and creativity is too.

35:11.66
Isobel Anderson
So I now want to do the thank yous. And so everyone who has listened to this podcast, thank you so much. What an immense privilege it has been to say stuff and people have listened.

35:26.38
Isobel Anderson
What the fuck? um I don't take it for granted ever. Sometimes it's felt hard because... um for all the reasons I shared in my last episode about why I closed Girls Twilling Knobs I really really don't take it for granted that you have tuned in and I never take it for granted when people say your your podcast like let alone the programs or anything else your podcast is what has meant I've released an EP or is what has meant I'm now doing a degree in music production or whatever it might be that is huge

35:59.40
Isobel Anderson
And i I also love hearing that when people listen to the podcast and they say, that is why I quit a toxic relationship band relationship or something. Amazing.

36:09.86
Isobel Anderson
I don't take that for granted. Thank you so much. and Please keep telling me. If you see me in the street, please um pull me over and tell me that. and That will be a very nice thing to hear if it's true um as I move into this next chapter of my life.

36:28.07
Isobel Anderson
To all of the students um who enrolled in our programs, um thank you so much from the bottom of my heart. Your investment is what made all of this possible.

36:39.11
Isobel Anderson
Without your investment, there would have been no podcast, there would have been no weekly emails, there would have been no social media. account and of course they wouldn't have been the programs but your investment is what has made this possible for the last five years so thank you so much but not just for your investment for everything you've taught me um for the trust you've put in the frameworks I've made and the programs that I've created um thank you so much for

37:09.49
Isobel Anderson
Just allowing me to tag along for the ride on your creative journey has taught me so much. It's made me value my own creativity and my own practice so much. As I come back to it now, it's been wonderful to come back to it after having been able to be alongside you.

37:27.41
Isobel Anderson
all these years and um I just have so much respect for you. To the collaborators that I've worked with through Girls Twiddling Knobs, um especially, you know, people like the F-List and the Oram Awards and the other women in music organisations we've worked with,

37:44.21
Isobel Anderson
I'm so proud of the difference that we've made together. You know, you've done so much incredible work and so has Girls Drilling Nobs, but together sometimes we've we've brought that into the same room and I'm so proud of what we've achieved together as well.

37:59.37
Isobel Anderson
And I really want to thank the Girls Twiddling Knobs team who have come and gone over the years. And I'm going to do this in chronological order. So the first person who worked with me in Girls Twiddling Knobs was Francesca O'Connor. Francesca was um really vital in helping me get it from being something that's just in my head into something that's serving dozens and dozens of students at first and then hundreds of students eventually. um francesca helped run our communities and helped do admin and social media and just so much of the kind of public facing outward like touch stuff that we did at girls twiddling knob so thank you so much francesca um i want to thank jade bailey who has helped me um produce and edit the podcast since 2021

38:46.52
Isobel Anderson
Jade, you've just been an absolute dream to work with. You have brought so much curiosity and excitement to this topic. I know you care about it so much. And being able to work with someone and hand over some of the process so it's not all on me, but also know that it's in incredibly safe hands. And also know that I have someone I can bounce ideas off when it comes to guests and episodes. It has been invaluable. And um thank you so much for everything you've given to this podcast.

39:15.21
Isobel Anderson
I want to thank Rosie Banz, who um worked with Girls Twiddling Knobs 2023 and who I did last week's episode with. and We did that as a conversation, but Rosie and helped create the membership that is in Girls Twiddling Knobs called Rise and Release and helped support those communities, helped strategizing and delivering on marketing in Girls Twiddling Knobs.

39:38.29
Isobel Anderson
um So thank you so much, Rosie. And Rosie has continued to be a real strong ally and confidant And then lastly, but by no means least, I want to thank Cuiva O'Carroll, who became in 2023 our community um met manager and supported our, who had multiple communities um and also supported in student support on email and things like that, and also in social media. So thank you, Cuiva, as well.

40:08.100
Isobel Anderson
um All of those people are amazing. um People who've worked in music in various different ways and also um have an artistic practice as well um and are all still working in music, doing incredible things and ah music and audio, I should say, are doing incredible things.

40:28.26
Isobel Anderson
and just before I finish up I want to thank the people in my life who have been so supportive i first want to thank my mum and dad because they are the people that instilled in me that education is a human right my mum for the whole of her career was a state school special needs teacher in primary schools.

40:49.19
Isobel Anderson
My dad, for the whole of his life, was and worked in museum education in the public sector. And they both strongly believe that education is integral to everyone at every stage in their life. We all learn in different ways and that nothing really matters if we don't have access to understanding it, participating in it, giving it a go um Whether it be objects in a museum or arithmetic, none of it really has value unless we all get to access it and understand it and know it.

41:23.68
Isobel Anderson
So thank you to my mum and dad who instilled that in me.

41:27.66
Isobel Anderson
And thank you to Miguel, my partner, who has been with me through the highs and the lows, who has done happy dances when courses have been a success and I've been able to fund this crazy project for another six months.

41:43.79
Isobel Anderson
Or when things have been downright shit and I've been in tears and having to make some really tough decisions. He's been there through thick and thin. He's always believed in me.

41:56.56
Isobel Anderson
He's always been excited and supportive um and always with love and joy and dancing in the kitchen. So I couldn't have done it without you.

42:10.77
Isobel Anderson
And the last thing I want to say is just some closing thoughts, which is Girls Twiddling Nobs is ending. This is the last podcast episode, but listening doesn't end.

42:21.42
Isobel Anderson
Making doesn't end. Creating doesn't end and caring doesn't end. the work continues in quieter ways, maybe in smaller rooms, in unexpected places.

42:31.82
Isobel Anderson
It all has worth, even if you don't know when that may become possible. understandable or seeable or hearable. It matters to just be human, to stay close to what it is that makes us human and to care and to do and to create and to connect.

42:52.45
Isobel Anderson
And on that note, if you want to stay connected to me, this year I'm going to be releasing an album, which will be my first album in nine years. And I'm going to be continuing to pour my energy and my love and my heart into my practice. So if you want to stay connected to that, then do join my email list, my artist email list.

43:15.04
Isobel Anderson
um The best way to do that is to click the link where you're listening to this podcast episode, but you can also go to isabelanderson.com forward slash contact and you will see a little button there to join my email list as an artist. um This is also where if I end up offering any or creating any kind of content,

43:38.67
Isobel Anderson
education-y, arty, experiential-y stuff again. that's where I'll be telling people about it. So one thing I'm thinking of is is maybe organising an in-person artist residency for a small group who want to dive into a concept, not a skill set.

43:58.12
Isobel Anderson
um So if that's something that you'd be interested in, it's another reason to join my email list. So go to isabelanderson.com forward slash contact and And if you're on that list, you'll also be able to pre-order things like my album and um come to any gigs I might be doing and all of that stuff. And I will be sharing candidly the process of making art in this crazy world.

44:40.98
Isobel Anderson
And um I will be sharing, yeah, just behind the scenes on my process and how things are happening, which if you are especially kind of interested in DIY releasing and navigating the world as an artist, you'll probably find useful as well. So do um join that email list if you want to stay connected.

44:58.30
Isobel Anderson
Otherwise, this podcast will be kept um alive for the whole of 2026, wherever you listen to your podcasts. It is archived in the British Library. um And if you want to download the free resources that I've left up on the Girls Twiddling Nobs site, just go to girlstwidlingnobs.com and you'll find links to those PDF resources, things like how to build your own sound absorption panels, So while all of the programmes that I've made are now archived, you can download those from our website and our website will stay live for the whole of 2026. And on our website, you'll also find links to lots of wonderful women and music initiatives, including gender inclusive music tech education platforms that you may want to...

45:42.17
Isobel Anderson
engage with now that Girls Twiddling Nobs is closing. So do go and check out that legacy page on girlstwiddlingnobs.com. Again, the link is with this ah podcast episode, wherever you're listening to it, so that you can access the resources that remain and the initiatives that you may want to connect with from here.

46:02.33
Isobel Anderson
And other than that, we have got to the end and it's now time to say over and out. Thank you for listening. Do stay in touch. Stay bold. Stay unapologetic. Don't wait for permission and stay human, my friends.