Ep#104: Music PR Made Simple: DIY Strategies for Independent Artists with Rachel White

If you’ve ever felt overwhelmed by music PR, you’re not alone! In this episode of Girls Twiddling Knobs, Isobel chats with Rachel White, music PR expert and founder of BRIC and House of DIY, to break down the real, actionable steps independent artists can take to promote their music effectively—without the stress.

🌟 Inside You’ll Learn:
✔️ What PR actually is and why it’s different from advertising
✔️ The biggest mistakes DIY artists make when pitching their music
✔️ A step-by-step guide to building your own music PR campaign
✔️ How to research the right blogs, playlists, and press outlets for your genre
✔️ The art of writing a pitch that gets noticed (and when to follow up!)
✔️ Why consistency is the secret to PR success—even if you don’t get immediate results

Rachel’s insights, practical advice, and no-nonsense approach make this a must-listen for any independent artist looking to cut through the noise and get their music heard.

🎧 Hit play now and take control of your PR! 🎵

LINKS MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE

📌 Brick London >>

📌 House of DIY >>

📌 Rachel’s FREE PR resources for DIY artists >>

📌 Connect with Rachel on Instagram >>

If you loved listening to this week's episode of the podcast, leave a review wherever you're listening now and let me know 💜💜💜

Loved this week's episode? Share it with a friend 👯‍♀️

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Girls Twiddling Knobs is hosted by Isobel Anderson and produced by Isobel Anderson and Jade Bailey.

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Transcript

00:00:01.38
Isobel Anderson
So welcome to Girls Toodling Knobs, Rachel.

00:00:05.01
Rachel
Hi Isabel, thanks so much for having me.

00:00:07.65
Isobel Anderson
It is a pleasure. i' I'm really looking forward to diving into everything to do with PR. I think there's loads of people who are going to be listening to this who are going to be really interested. um But first and foremost, can you just tell us who you are, what you do and where you're recording with us from?

00:00:24.92
Rachel
Yeah, so hi, I'm Rachel, Rachel White. I run a PR agency called BRIC and work with music artists, um events and different music brands. um And I've been running BRIC for the past 10 plus years. And then I also run House of DIY, which is a, um I guess, an educational platform for artists and creatives to learn how to do PR themselves um through resources, working with me one-on-one, and sort of general um tips and tips and ideas.

00:00:57.12
Rachel
And i I'm talking to you from Nottingham in England.

00:00:57.34
Isobel Anderson
Great.

00:01:01.25
Isobel Anderson
Brilliant. Okay, great. um So I think that that's really helpful because you not only have experience of running PR for organisations and on the behalf of other artists, but also helping DIY artists and grassroots artists to manage their own PR campaigns. So I think that there's loads that we can learn from your experience. And so hopefully this conversation is going to be very useful to people.

00:01:25.44
Isobel Anderson
um The first thing I'd love to ask you and just to kind of get a sense of is if anyone's listening to this and thinking, okay, I think I know what PR is, but I'm not sure, can you just explain to us what is PR in a general sense?

00:01:39.55
Rachel
Yeah, of course. So PR is sort of anything that you can think of that might include communication between yourself and and the public. It's our relationship with um our public, so our audience specifically, or should be sort of as tailored to our audience as possible. um So an example would be that um ah advertising or so any sort of marketing that you do is you telling someone and that you're great and PR is other people saying that you're great. So we're looking for the the credibility that PR ah brings and it is having that and that other person say to their own audience.

00:02:16.99
Rachel
You know, you really should check out this artist or listen to this album or see this person live. And and it counts for so much because of that credibility. So we use PR to, you know, promote a a project or to raise our profile and we try and do it through those sort of root routes through others that align with us and our audiences.

00:02:38.40
Isobel Anderson
Great. Yeah. I think that's a really helpful definition of advertising as where we talk about how brilliant we are. But PR is where somebody else talks about how brilliant we are.

00:02:47.79
Rachel
Yes, exactly.

00:02:47.99
Isobel Anderson
um And I know that you would say like probably a lot of people listening are already doing some kind of PR, but they maybe don't realize it yet. So can you just give us some examples of how grassroots artists, independent artists might be doing that, but not not be aware?

00:03:07.94
Rachel
Yeah, so we want to make PR as sort of intentional as possible because it can be really easy to sort of lump it in with all the other sort of marketing activity or advertising that we're doing. So if you're releasing a um ah ah music release or you're building a campaign, the automatic um activity that you sort of factor in are those advertising and marketing streams, so whether it's some um ads on socials, um whether it's posters for shows, um I think advertising and marketing is one of those things that comes quite easy to someone because it's easy to sort of know what those, or everyone has a more of an idea of what those things are, whereas PR normally just gets lumped in with that, so you might have

00:03:50.08
Rachel
um an old database. It seems feels like a lot of artists just have a database of contacts that they've had forever, which might include some DJs or some producers or some writers. and And they might just do a mail out to all of these people and with details of their release. But there's nothing very intentional there. There's nothing very strategic. um And I think that creating a campaign that's strategic and intentional is is what makes the difference. It's better to pitch your music to five people you've done loads of research into and sent them really personal and email pitches rather than to just blast out some news to, you know, 200 odd emails and you're not 100% sure if they're still working at that radio station or still writing for that but magazine. um So it's something that I think gets missed a lot or it's done sort of accidentally

00:04:39.30
Rachel
um and isn't factored in into campaign activity enough.

00:04:45.01
Isobel Anderson
Yeah. Okay. Um, no, that makes sense. So there's probably people listening who, who do have some contacts that they regularly will, you know, email every time they have a release coming out, but they're maybe not thinking about that as them doing PR. They're more just thinking about, right. I'm, I'm emailing that person that played it on that radio show last time.

00:05:07.93
Rachel
Yeah, I think exactly. And I think it it becomes sort of a it's something that's not always considered that needs refreshing as well. It's not always something that you think, right, I need to spend a bit of time before I get into this active campaign. I need to spend a bit of time researching who my best targets are going to be. You know, who if PR is other people shouting about me and how great I am, who do I want those people to be? You know, what are their audiences and how can I tap into those audiences? So and The more work that you can put in at the outset, the more prep and the and research that you can do um in order to really sort of streamline those targets, the more likely it is that you're going to and put yourself in front of an audience that's really going to get you um and equally you know writers or producers that are going to um like and want to play or review your music.

00:05:57.72
Isobel Anderson
Yeah and just thinking about like general PR and then music PR, apart from the fact that you're going to be obviously promoting music, what are there any differences do you think in those two areas when you niche down to music PR?

00:06:17.15
Rachel
I PR, essentially, all PR will do the same job no matter what it is that you're doing. I think with with music PR specifically, it's such a competitive industry. um I think that's one of the main things that, for me,

00:06:32.35
Rachel
I've worked in food and drink PR. um I've worked on art fairs. I've worked in lifestyle PR. I've done all different kinds of PR before I moved um fully into music. And I think music is the hardest one because it's so competitive. um And it's although it's constantly changing,

00:06:50.36
Rachel
um And I think that the the rise of sort of the DIY um way of working if you're a ah ah musician is helpful um because you can sort of pitch yourself and and um create your own campaigns. It's still really difficult because even if you you are able to do that, sort of cutting through the noise in music PR is just really difficult. And I think because it is constantly changing in um how ah media titles or gatekeepers or covering artists. It can be hard to just keep up with that you know there's a lot of change in the last few years from going from sort of print magazines to blogs to now play listing and streaming and so

00:07:33.59
Rachel
For me working in the industry it's you know constant change and so of um having to adapt to how PR's promoting music. So for an artist it's quite hard really because you have to again sort of try and stay ahead of that curve um and sort of educate yourself into the best ways to promote yourself and I think that is one of the reasons why it does end up just getting lumped in with everything else because it's hard to to know what what the best steps are when it comes to Piole and what should I be doing this time. Has anything changed from last time? I don't have time to find out, I'm just going to do what I did last time. um So I think that's the nature of of music, Piole, is the constants of change that's a thought.

00:08:14.85
Isobel Anderson
Yeah. um Well, it would be really great to learn what is a the the kind of arc of a typical PR campaign for, I guess, an album, let's say.

00:08:31.71
Rachel
Yeah, sure. So again, it very much starts at this sort of prep level. So I tend i tend to say to artists that I work with, you know, if if they come to me saying, oh, I'd really like your help on a and an album campaign, whether it's me working with them in a DIY capacity, you know, working on on their strategy, or whether they've come through BRIC and they want me to work with them, you know, the but one of the first things I'll say is, okay, what's your timeline? where What are we working to? And, you know, 50% of the time, it'll be, oh, it's out in two weeks, or it's out in three weeks. And I'll sort of say, okay, well,

00:09:05.78
Rachel
we can We can make this work this time. Next time, you need to be looking at your PR campaign, you know, at least two months out in terms of getting sort of the prep side of things ready, looking at targets, looking at where you want to be positioned, looking at other album campaigns of artists that are quite similar to you, perhaps in genre and um profile.

00:09:27.08
Rachel
and treating this a bit like a job, like auditing where those people are getting reviews, where they're being interviewed, you know, what roundups they're being included in, and making that a bit of a um a case study or a template for how you can then approach your own release. There's a lot, I think the one of the things that gets missed off is that research stage, which if I'm working with an artist it's one of the first things that I'll do. I'll i'll look at, um okay, this is a ah punk band who are releasing an album in two months time, right, I need to have a look at similar punk bands for them to see what kind of pickup they've had on their recent album release.

00:10:03.85
Rachel
and it just stops you off on right well here's two new writers that I wasn't aware of and now writing for this title which is a sort of a main target for this band and from that point you can start to build your target list which again shouldn't be a very long list you know I think it really helps to keep your targets um quite concise so that whenever you look through your list you can go okay well that website I was going to contact them specifically about a review this podcast I was going to contact them specifically about an interview and instead of just looking at a list of names and titles that you actually have

00:10:43.34
Rachel
can't recall any information on any of them. You've got quite, and you know, a smaller list, I don't know, 10 or 20 targets you could start with. And you know, with each approach, what you're asking for from, from each person. And I think it makes it so much more manageable.

00:10:57.69
Rachel
um and less scary as well because you're kind of not going into it blindly you're sort of saying okay well I've got a really clear idea about where I see this campaign um being seen by a public um and hopefully sort of my ideal audience that's going to then pick up and go and stream my my album and I think from that point you can then sort of work backwards almost in terms of making sure that your um the assets that you need are there. So your biography, a press release, images. You're thinking, right, well, I'm going to pitch an album review or album review. So I need to make sure all my MP3s are all labeled correctly. They're in a folder. I can include a track list there.

00:11:42.91
Rachel
or I've got everything on a stream link for anybody I'm sending reviews to and you can make sure that that press kit um which would include all of those assets there in place before you do any kind of outreach um and also sorry go on yeah sorry I can go on forever

00:11:56.88
Isobel Anderson
I'm going to, um, I'm just going to stop you there rich because there's some stuff I want to just like pick up on before we keep moving. No, it's all good. I want to get into all of it. But so the first thing is that you said, you know, if you're going to be releasing an album, you want to give at least two months lead in for PR, right?

00:12:13.91
Rachel
Yes.

00:12:14.79
Isobel Anderson
Yeah. So that's the first really important piece of information. Is it better to give more than two months or is that like a minimum?

00:12:21.39
Rachel
I mean, if you can plan ahead even even, yeah, even further back than two months would be great, but two months from a PR perspective, even for online, because I'm i'm thinking ahead, you know, some people still pitch for print titles, and especially if you you have quite a niche genre or, um you know, you've got a couple of print titles in your head that you really wanna make sure you reach out to.

00:12:43.11
Rachel
Obviously a lot of print titles these days are, oh um if they're not monthly, they're bi-monthly or they're quarterly. So you're really having to work

00:12:48.68
Isobel Anderson
Yeah.

00:12:50.17
Rachel
quite far ahead if you want to try and engage with print press. However, even digital press, because of the competitive nature of music reviews and you know trying to get on writers' radars and how far in advance they work,

00:12:53.73
Isobel Anderson
Yeah.

00:13:02.63
Rachel
the the more notice you can give them, the more chance that your' you'll be able to um at least sort of start some sort of conversation with them about when their deadlines are, what they're looking for in that particular issue or for that round up they're doing in, you know, next month. So the more time you can give someone, the better. And and also, I guess we'll come to this later, but and The first pitch that you send out probably won't be the pitch that scores you any coverage. There's very much a um ah culture of chasing pitches, so you also need to allow time for you to chase a pitch, um which again, so the longer you're sort of working in advance, um the more you can strategize that.

00:13:46.85
Isobel Anderson
Yeah, that's that's a really good insider tip there that, you know, it's not, it's it's very common that your first reach out, your first pitch doesn't get picked up. And so to give yourself time to keep chasing and keep kind of making that contact um is really important. So minimum two months more, if preferably. I'm thinking also that, you know, a lot of the time with album campaigns, obviously people release singles beforehand.

00:14:13.40
Isobel Anderson
So therefore, I, you know, you would give, what about for a single? If it's, if an album's two months leading, is a single two months leading as well?

00:14:24.22
Rachel
Two months, again, I would say two months, if you're doing this, if you're doing this for yourself, you're prepping, you haven't done this before, give yourself as much time as you can to do all this research the in the back end.

00:14:30.65
Isobel Anderson
Yeah. Yeah.

00:14:35.82
Rachel
If you' you've sort of done your research, or you've kind of got an idea, or you're listening to this and going, okay, I can do that, I can spend a couple of days doing that. I think the the sort of active period would be um I'd say a month for a single because you want a couple of weeks where you're putting your assets or at least you've got your assets together um and you've got your list of your targets and you can spend a couple of weeks before release sending it to people who would want to receive it before it's out.

00:14:49.62
Isobel Anderson
Yeah.

00:15:04.54
Rachel
um And then you want a couple of weeks after the single's out to then follow up with people that perhaps haven't supported it or send the music to people that like to receive music after it's been released.

00:15:17.17
Rachel
um And so you've got sort of a four week window of activity for a single, I'd say.

00:15:22.88
Isobel Anderson
Yeah.

00:15:23.26
Rachel
And that's, that's pretty much the case for me as well. If, and you know, in in in a PR agency um world too, that tends to be how I work things.

00:15:32.32
Isobel Anderson
Yeah, okay, that's really useful. So, you know, you you have that month period where basically the single's released in the middle where you're active. And so if you did that classic album release campaign of like two singles and then the album and then a third single, for example, you know you you kind of know that your PR is going to be, um you're going to be active with PR for most of that time.

00:15:48.60
Rachel
Yeah.

00:15:56.51
Isobel Anderson
but also that for the album you want to give it even more run-up because obviously there's more music for people to listen to like you say if they want to do a review or something. um So that gives people some kind of idea of time frame. I think what you shared about researching was really like that makes total sense that you know you you maybe google artists are your peers your contemporaries or maybe even like a little step up above where you'd like to be or where you are now and where you'd like to be similar genre maybe, be similar kind of, it could even be similar sort of issues that you tackle in your music I guess.

00:16:33.91
Rachel
yeah

00:16:34.21
Isobel Anderson
um

00:16:34.99
Rachel
yeah

00:16:35.15
Isobel Anderson
so and

00:16:35.65
Rachel
see

00:16:36.85
Isobel Anderson
And I guess also like artists, it could also be from a kind of point of view of location, like artists that are in your area. um And so just doing a Google of like seeing where they've been featured, seeing where they're being reviewed and making a list of those publications, those blogs, those podcasts.

00:16:56.66
Isobel Anderson
the bit that i'd love to pick up on which i think is less self-explanatory is you were saying so when you're pitching it's good to have done this research and prepped in your head what kind of a feature or kind of coverage you are looking to look you think you'd be a good fit for

00:17:00.56
Rachel
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:17:13.58
Isobel Anderson
So you mentioned reviews, what other types of coverage can you can you kind of pitch for? And why is it good to be specific about I think I'd be a good fit for one of your review spots rather than just say I think you'd really like my album, can you cover it?

00:17:34.82
Rachel
yeah

00:17:35.78
Isobel Anderson
So there's two questions there. There's two questions. What are the different types of coverage you could pitch for? And the second is, why should you be intentional and direct in your communication about the type of coverage you're looking for?

00:17:49.77
Rachel
Yeah, so um first question, so the types of coverage. So yeah, if you've got an album campaign coming up, the first thing that you're going to think of is, ah, I need album reviews. However, but like we've been saying, you're probably going to be releasing singles in the lead up to that. um And so in that time,

00:18:06.73
Rachel
you're going to be thinking of lots of different ways perhaps that you can get yourself seen within the media that you know above and beyond those reviews so that could be single reviews for your singles and I guess for singles as well there is a lot more that can be done I guess um ah with PR rather than albums so for example you know added to a a playlist and included in a singles roundup um included in a a um ah YouTube um roundup of of best tracks of the week. There's lots of different ways that singles can be um but um promoted. However, whenever you're pushing your single ahead of that sort of album release, you want to make sure you're also tying in

00:18:52.31
Rachel
Which seems like common sense, but sometimes you can just forget. The bigger picture that you're promoting is the album. So the singles that you're promoting are to promote that album. So wherever you can, if you get an interview off the back of your single release, let's say, you're going to want to use that interview to promote the album that's coming up. So again, trying to be strategic with and anything I get around this campaign, I need to be put you know pointing to the album.

00:19:21.26
Rachel
um And coverage can come in lots of different kinds of ways. um And I think it's, again, at the outset, when you're doing this prep work, it's important to maybe sit down and go, OK, well, if I was um to, I don't know, write ah an article for somebody or provide some sort of content, we essentially want to make it as easy as possible for a journalist or a producer or whoever to go, oh, brilliant. This artist has come to me with something that works perfectly for our website or our magazine. They've already given me an idea, they can put it together and send it across to me packaged exactly how I like it and that and that way we can place it.

00:20:00.17
Rachel
So think about whether it's a, you know, you could do some skill sharing on, you know, um how to DJ, how to play a particular instrument. Here are my top tracks that I'm loving this month, or, you know, if a the particular if you're working in particular, themes within your music, and then, you know, these are the tracks that inspired me to make an album about this. So think of ways that you can sort of tell your story and show off your personality. I guess I call them personality pieces.

00:20:29.08
Rachel
um that you can turn into PR opportunities. um And I think you know if you if you're confident writing an article and you can write an article about a specific topic that's important to you, you know whether that's um something on, if you think about what's topical in the news and sort of music industry, if you're sort of really into your local community and supporting sort of grassroots music where you live, you could write a piece about about that community, about you know local independent music venues, about how um

00:21:00.39
Rachel
ah how ah things that are going on within the music industry are impacting you and think about how you can yeah give ta a bit but tell your story in different ways and I think that's what um creates opportunities um in a PR campaign to make it more about you and less about a particular release. And these personality pieces, all you need to do is point to your release as part of these bigger pieces. you know So here's this wonderful article you've written and my album is out on this date. So try and think about it in in that respect. And then I guess the second half of that, which I guess just just ties in quite well is that um writers are looking for

00:21:43.13
Rachel
um very specific bits of content depending on what they cover so if we take the example of a music website um this is why the research but again is really important because if you go to a website you can go okay um I can read through these different sections this person is the music um albums reviews editor so that's the person I'll contact about reviews but this person is the interviews editor so I'll need to pitch that person if I want to try and pitch myself for an interview. This person does a wants to watch feature in January and July so I'll make sure that I'm pitching myself to that person for the wants to watch slot so that you're making your the job easier for yourself

00:22:25.07
Rachel
and by pitching the exact person an exact bit of content or an exact angle but you're also making it easier for them because you know that these are the kinds of articles they're actually looking for um and that's how you build relationships and again it doesn't necessarily mean that they'll turn around and go okay brilliant we're going to feature this next month thank you for sending it but they'll at least go okay this person has taken the time to work out what I cover as part of my you know work at this magazine so I'm going to make sure that if they contact me again I'll read what they have to send because I know they've taken the time to pitch something relevant to me. PR is essentially all about building relationships so the more you can do that and and I know sometimes it can be disheartening if you send lots of pitches and you don't get

00:23:10.89
Rachel
You know, lots of confirmations. I do it every day. I understand. um But it's about building those relationships up. So, you know, after the third pitch, perhaps on your third single, they go, OK, cool. We're going to feature this person now. They've shown consistency. They're professional. They've taken the time. um And that's what it's all about.

00:23:29.98
Isobel Anderson
Yeah, and that's really helpful, Rachel. I think that it's not how most of us musicians approach PR, is it? you know And I think that um when you when you understand a process in an industry inside out, it you see it so clearly, you're like, well, of course you need to understand these different bits of coverage and of course you need to really research who you're sharing it with and but when you're coming to at it like totally fresh like you said earlier on in on this on this chat you're busy you know as as a DIY artist you're spinning all the plates you've got an album release you're like trying to get your head round did distributing it on all the digital streaming platforms and getting the merch done and maybe booking the gigs and like the PR is just one other part of that process but

00:24:20.09
Isobel Anderson
it you know everything you're saying makes total sense and actually blocking off some time to really understand those specific places that you want. to talk about you, but not just then kind of finding the email of the editor, but like actually looking at the the site and seeing, right, what are the different kinds of ways they cover music and just drilling a bit more into those details. And if I'm going to be pitching a single, is that better to pitch my single for, you know, like you say, like the release roundup?

00:24:55.02
Isobel Anderson
And then I could also pitch the album for an album review, or maybe it's an interview. And I i think that that makes so much sense, but it does mean, as artists, us putting a little bit of time aside. And and actually kind of I always think it's when you've got something like this that you're looking at, because it can feel quite intimidating and a bit overwhelming.

00:25:14.97
Isobel Anderson
like blocking off time and making yourself a cup of coffee or even pouring a glass of wine and just spending some time with it in a calm space, you know?

00:25:20.32
Rachel
Yeah.

00:25:24.75
Rachel
Yeah, it can be really overwhelming to a lot of people, you know, a lot of the DIY artists that I've worked with um are just too overwhelmed to even think about it, you know, it's they find it quite stressful and I understand, I totally understand it and I think um the other thing to remember is that

00:25:29.82
Isobel Anderson
oh

00:25:37.66
Isobel Anderson
Yeah.

00:25:45.16
Rachel
You know, you're not being asked to research, you know, a hundred different websites or magazines or, you know, radio stations, literally start with 10. go right I'm going to find 10 targets that's all I'm going to find and I'm just going to spend a bit of time with each of those targets just making sure I've got the right person for a single review and the right person for an interview pitch and just pop those on a spreadsheet and then just leave them go away for a bit because that is just ti about taking really small steps and building on that and maintaining that

00:26:18.61
Rachel
And once you've started, it's a lot easier to then go back to the spreadsheet and go, oh, ah great, I already started this. I've already got 10 that I feel really confident about.

00:26:26.32
Isobel Anderson
Hmm.

00:26:29.06
Rachel
I'm going to add two more this week. Or, you know, you see another artist that you that's currently perhaps in campaign and doing a lot of activity that's been interviewed on something and you go, oh, I didn't have that target down.

00:26:42.11
Rachel
I'm going to add that to my spreadsheet and when I find out who the writer is, just pop that in there. um And I think once you realise that it's just small steps, it can become much more manageable and sort of takes the scaries out of it.

00:26:57.27
Rachel
um Because it is about having that small, really detailed list of 10 people not having to research, you know, 200 different places.

00:26:57.39
Isobel Anderson
Yeah.

00:27:07.84
Isobel Anderson
And I think like, you know, the, you take the scaries out of it when you understand the process.

00:27:13.44
Rachel
Yeah.

00:27:13.92
Isobel Anderson
And I think the big problem is that for a lot of artists, we don't understand the process of PR. Like we we kind of know what it is.

00:27:18.65
Rachel
Yeah.

00:27:21.11
Isobel Anderson
we We see other artists maybe getting covered and we know we kind of should do it.

00:27:24.22
Rachel
Yeah.

00:27:26.54
Isobel Anderson
We want to do it. Most artists, like one of the big things they want is to have an album review or an interview or something like that. But we don't really understand what the process is. And I think once you start kind of learning the process,

00:27:38.41
Isobel Anderson
it does really help it to become less scary because otherwise you send a bunch of emails out, don't hear anything back and feel just completely shit. Whereas if you understand that process, you're like, ah, okay, I actually need to specifically say the kind of coverage I think my single would be good for or I would be good for whatever it might be. And these are the so the kind of the narratives that are going to I'm going to lead with not just that I released an album, but the fact that it's about this particular issue or this particular experience I've had.

00:28:12.99
Isobel Anderson
um And that I need to give lots of time for me to chase those people a bit because they're inundated. That's kind of what they're used to.

00:28:23.11
Rachel
Yeah.

00:28:23.85
Isobel Anderson
And and and I think once once you understand that, then it's like I say, it kind of it clicks into place a bit more. um and hopefully becomes a bit less kind of intimidating.

00:28:37.23
Isobel Anderson
i think I think there will be people listening to this, hearing this and thinking, oh God, that that just feels like a lot, you know?

00:28:37.26
Rachel
Yeah.

00:28:43.40
Rachel
yeah Yeah. And PR is hard won.

00:28:45.66
Isobel Anderson
um

00:28:47.69
Rachel
It's not easy and it's not guaranteed.

00:28:49.63
Isobel Anderson
Yeah.

00:28:50.76
Rachel
And it's, and that's why it's so powerful. Like if you put, let's say you you go ah ah take the underground somewhere in London and you see a poster for an album and um you see another poster for an album.

00:29:04.36
Rachel
And on one of them, there's a five star NME review on there.

00:29:08.29
Isobel Anderson
Yeah.

00:29:10.25
Rachel
That's got way more impact than a single poster review. Say, oh, this album's not necessarily that And that is the power of PR. Again, getting other people to say that your release is fantastic and you need to hear it is hard-won.

00:29:23.66
Rachel
So I think the other thing is doing all this work and then thinking, oh, I might not even get anything. No one might, you know, am I might not get any replies.

00:29:30.86
Isobel Anderson
yeah

00:29:30.92
Rachel
I think that's that's a really difficult thing to overcome for a lot of people too, because it's not something you can just take off and go, right, I've done the PR, I've confirmed all this, that's all done. it's It's not, it's it's not guaranteed.

00:29:43.18
Rachel
But again, how at least understanding it, if you get to some point in your career where you're like, actually, I've got budget to pay an agency to do this now. You know, if you take the time to understand PR, at least you kind of know that and what you're paying someone for, what to expect, you know, what what you can do to help them do their job.

00:30:03.01
Rachel
So I think just by sort of learning the basics, it can sort it can it can help you anyway, sort of um

00:30:09.18
Isobel Anderson
Yeah.

00:30:10.00
Rachel
you know, career long.

00:30:12.25
Isobel Anderson
Yeah and I also think that like that there's nothing worse than feeling like you did not do a project and and in particular your music justice and as an artist no matter how scary it might feel to be reaching out to people and

00:30:22.49
Rachel
Yeah.

00:30:27.91
Isobel Anderson
possibly facing rejection or just not even any reaction at all. No matter how scary that is, it's so important, I think, to come out the other side of release and know I did what I could.

00:30:38.79
Rachel
yeah

00:30:39.15
Isobel Anderson
I really gave it a good go. I really backed myself. I really backed my music. And yeah, maybe I didn't hear back from any of those PR pictures or maybe I only got one or two responses.

00:30:49.98
Isobel Anderson
um But you you I don't think you ever regret having actually backed yourself as an artist like that.

00:30:57.92
Rachel
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly. And I think that, you know, as if you're a DIY artist, I guess that is what you do. You have to, you're the person that's backing yourself in every area of promotion and not just promotion of everything that you're doing. And, you know, a lot of people say, well, um you know, PR isn't relevant anymore. I've got my socials. I've got my TikTok. I don't need to do PR. I'm not saying you need to not do any of anything else and just do PR.

00:31:26.44
Rachel
What I'm saying is it can really elevate a campaign and it's worth just adding it into the mix at whatever level you're comfortable with adding it in there. Even if it's just a very small thing, even if it's not even reaching out to people, it's just going, right, well, these are the people I would reach out to. These are the angles I think I would pitch. you know This is the content I could create. um And just you know just taking that first step and then maybe you add it to the next one.

00:31:53.16
Isobel Anderson
yeah Yeah okay great so we've got um making sure we've got enough lead in time, making sure that we've done our research um by also looking at artists that are kind of similar to us or maybe a couple of steps ahead um so that we can get some good placement there.

00:32:11.18
Isobel Anderson
but also making sure that the people we're contacting are working in the right area even of that publication and that we've thought about the angle that we're pitching and the type of coverage we think we would be good for.

00:32:27.69
Rachel
Yeah. Yeah.

00:32:28.87
Isobel Anderson
so um Great, so that kind of feels like we've we've got to a really good stage. By this point, surely, we're ready to make contact, right?

00:32:37.45
Rachel
I hope so. Yeah. What things do?

00:32:40.49
Isobel Anderson
So yeah, oh yeah that that sounds pretty, sounds like we're pretty sorted there. And and we've got, like you said, youve we've got sort of like 10, especially if this is the first time we're doing it, we've got like 10 different contacts we're going to reach out for because we're going to make sure they're really well researched, really well um sort of defined.

00:32:51.89
Rachel
And turn. Yeah.

00:33:01.74
Isobel Anderson
So how do we reach out? What advice do you give for that next part of the process?

00:33:08.83
Rachel
So if you've got your targets there, you know you know who you're reaching out to and you know the um the angle that you're reaching out to. four, so for each person it's like, right, this person, single review, this person, interview.

00:33:21.68
Isobel Anderson
No.

00:33:22.81
Rachel
You're gonna have to put together a really simple template that you're gonna use all the time. So it's not every time you send an email to a journalist, you feel like you're starting from scratch. So you can open a Word document and doing a Word document.

00:33:35.24
Rachel
I i have resources on my website, um which is just a simple template. So what you're gonna do is just have a simple template. It's gonna be really quite short. um And what you're gonna include in there is um you know a quick introduction to yourself, a hello. i I'm you know writing to pitch myself for this particular slot. um Here's a link to my press kit with all of my you know ah my info in there. And make sure you always link to an external press kit and don't include lots of attachments or anything to any emails.

00:34:07.85
Rachel
um ah let them know when you're sort of and but what date you're working to, your sort of your release date, your impact date and sign off and send it. And I think once you've done that and repeat for each one, so each one has the same template, you know,

00:34:26.07
Rachel
ah hello a simple intro, what you're looking for, links to you, send it off. Make sure you include a date for when you send each one because um another important thing is this sort this chasing um journalists or whatever wherever pictures you've sent um and not thinking that you're going to send one email. And if they don't reply, it's over. um It's important to do chases. So it's important to log when you've sent emails to people.

00:34:52.58
Rachel
And then what I would do is wait. I guess it depends what kind of timeline you're working to, but let's say um you're doing a single and you've got two weeks before the single's out.

00:34:55.97
Isobel Anderson
Huh.

00:35:01.54
Rachel
So if you send an email at the start, like two weeks out from release date, I send a chaser one week out from release date. And then if I still don't get a response, I'll send something on the release date so that you've you least staggered those chases to a journalist.

00:35:13.55
Isobel Anderson
Hmm. Hmm.

00:35:17.79
Rachel
And there's three different opportunities for them to see your email. um And you you know it might be a case that some people get back and say, oh, thanks for sending it. It's not for me. um But then at least they've opened your email.

00:35:28.83
Rachel
That's a positive thing. And if they do do that, reply and say, thanks so much for replying. Thanks so much for letting me know you know. I'll keep you posted on future music. And that's the start of a dialogue. And that might feel to some people like that's a fail. I consider that as, oh, brilliant. They've replied to me. That's fantastic. They've seen it. I'm in their inbox. um And that, you know, I'll make sure that I'll reply to them and perhaps even use that same email change sometimes um if I'm pitching something new. Also,

00:35:58.89
Rachel
um When you pitch yourself to a journalist, if they don't open their email, they don't reply. Again, that's not always a fail because you're in their inbox and a lot of journalists will search, let's say they're doing a roundup of um i don't know ah electronic music albums, they might search a specific keyword in their inbox And if your email pings up that you've used that specific keyword too, they go, oh, this person, this might work for this roundup I'm doing then. Let me have a look at their music. So just being in someone's inbox can sometimes just lead to opportunities too. and So it's important to so just consider all that um when you're pitching journalists, because otherwise it can just feel like you're sending words out into the void and um and nothing's coming back. But it's all part of the process.

00:36:47.32
Isobel Anderson
Yeah. Um, yeah, I love that. I think that makes a lot, that makes that process much more clear. And I think it does, hearing you talk about it like that, I hope for a lot of listeners, it might take the emotion out of it because you're seeing it's more like a process and you're kind of almost expecting that you're not going to hear back. And so you're factoring in a second and a third follow-up and therefore, you know, it's not personal. It's just how it works.

00:37:13.94
Isobel Anderson
because the people that you're emailing, their inbox is probably so just, you know, so many emails coming in all the time, so many artists sharing their work, that it's just not a personal reflection of the worth of your music if they don't open your email even.

00:37:31.56
Rachel
No, no, it's not, and it's is it's so, it is so competitive. And I think the other way of, you know, of of being as um relevant to the people that you're pitching as possible, again, is that, is that being very specific with your targets, but also not thinking, right, well,

00:37:48.62
Rachel
um An NME review is the only thing that's going or a guardian reviews the only anything that's going to you know make a big impact on me. So they're the targets I'm going to go for. You need to, you know, also consider lots of other areas of of press.

00:38:00.17
Rachel
So local press, for example, are huge champions of grassroots local musicians.

00:38:07.04
Isobel Anderson
Oh.

00:38:07.17
Rachel
um And people kind of think, well, that won't that won't impact me. You think about the reach that local um news websites get. It's absolutely huge. The SEO alone is huge.

00:38:19.95
Rachel
And it's such a nice and springboard, I think, local press. It's good practice, first of all. If you're a bit nervous and you haven't done PR before, it's excellent practice for dealing with media because they just want to chat about what you're up to, where you're playing, your next local gig, when your single's out.

00:38:36.73
Rachel
um and they'll do a nice piece on you, you can share it, you can link it back to your website or you know when you're your release is out. um And there are great journalists to stay in touch with because um local journalists tend to be keyed into lots of different things going on in the area, festivals, you know events that a council might be arranging. So if you can build a relationship with a local journalist, if they're writing a story on, I don't know, again, um independent music venues, let's say,

00:39:06.61
Rachel
They might go, oh, I spoke to an artist last week. um I need someone to do ah ah make give me a comment for this article that I'm doing. I'll drop them an email and see if they're interested. It's a really good way of of building your media contacts at a local level and putting in that practice in. And it's the same kind of thing for like niche and specialist press too. If you make, I don't know, sort of ah instrumentals or cinematic music, then go for really specific niche titles that really um help to platform that kind of music and not sort of the more mainstream titles. Because again, those, um first of all, those those sort of niche specialist titles will really sort of lock you in with a really good audience that will just totally get you because that's all they cover. But it's a good springboard for sort of the next step.

00:39:58.25
Rachel
and bigger targets are more likely to cover you if they can see at whatever level you've had interest and um coverage before approaching them.

00:40:08.84
Isobel Anderson
Yeah definitely I think that's a really good point and I think also you know even if you haven't spoken to somebody as in like even if you weren't successful with a pitch before um I've had experiences where I've pitched and then haven't heard anything back and then that publication has got back in touch with me to contribute to a totally different like piece

00:40:30.96
Rachel
Yeah.

00:40:32.92
Isobel Anderson
And I didn't even know whether they'd open my email or not. you know So i think I think you're right, like just getting in somebody's email inbox, and it is a massive bonus if people reply back and forth to you. Because I mean i think ah from a kind of practical point of view, ah or even a slightly technical behind the scenes point of view, yes, it means that you for that actual human being, you've had a conversation with them back and forth on email.

00:40:59.66
Isobel Anderson
But for their email inbox as well, they stop putting you in spam if you've had replies back and forth. So then the next time you email them, it's more likely to go into their, um you know, how people have different folders now automatically like focused inbox or priority inbox, you're more likely to go in there than their kind of general inbox or their spam.

00:41:15.11
Rachel
Yeah.

00:41:20.67
Isobel Anderson
So again, like you're so right that just having that back and forth, even if it's just for someone to say no, it's actually, it's ah it is the start of that conversation.

00:41:21.38
Rachel
Exactly.

00:41:29.92
Rachel
Yeah, it it's an absolute positive.

00:41:32.07
Isobel Anderson
Yeah.

00:41:32.69
Rachel
You know, if someone's taking the time to reply to you, that is a positive thing.

00:41:36.23
Isobel Anderson
Really is, yeah. um So okay, so we've um we've now kind of sent out, I'm just imagining we're doing this together Rachel, we ah we're doing an album campaign. We've sent out our 10 emails, we have factored in follow-up as well.

00:41:52.98
Isobel Anderson
Um, and let's say we haven't heard back from any of them. Let's take worst case scenario. I haven't heard back from any of them. And, you know, we've done this the two follow ups as well.

00:42:03.88
Isobel Anderson
What do we do now in this scenario?

00:42:08.86
Rachel
people, sort of me included, consider that the job's done.

00:42:13.21
Isobel Anderson
Hmm.

00:42:13.25
Rachel
Like, ah I think there's, you could sit and go, oh, well, you know, that was completely unsuccessful.

00:42:20.41
Isobel Anderson
Hmm.

00:42:21.06
Rachel
um I'm not gonna do that again. um Or you kind of go, right, well, I've done all the things I said I was gonna do on my list, which is PR related, which was write a great pitch, put together a press kit, pitch some really targeted and pieces, um do my chases.

00:42:37.16
Rachel
You, there, there isn't an option to carry on chasing forever and ever and ever until someone replies. Um, so you kind of have to let it go. And again, go, right, I've done what I needed to do.

00:42:46.37
Isobel Anderson
Oh.

00:42:49.10
Rachel
I'm going to move on to the next thing.

00:42:51.19
Isobel Anderson
Uh huh.

00:42:51.31
Rachel
And you have done your job and it's the same with me in my day to day, you know, PR world with my own clients. You can ah say to your clients, look, this is what we're going to do. These are the targets. These are when we're going to send stuff out and.

00:43:04.82
Rachel
There is no guarantee. So it could be that you do all this. You don't get any responses. It's still not a failed campaign because you've done the things you said you were going to do. You've planted the seeds and also, you know, you well done if you did all that because you've done the first steps and you've done more than you did in a campaign where you didn't do any PR at all.

00:43:24.53
Rachel
So hopefully what you'll do is then build on this for the next release that you do. You'll go, okay, well, I had those 10 targets. I'm going to add to that. Maybe I'm going to make it 15 this time. I'm going to go through and make sure all those people are still the same people writing those same features.

00:43:41.93
Rachel
um and ah and you're gonna keep building on it. And consistent with PR, consistency is the most important thing. You know you don't wanna do one campaign, you get you know no successes and then you just don't do it again. It's the consistency, it's so important. And eventually, you know when you keep doing this, if you can take the emotion out of it and go, right, I've done my PR process, I've done my marketing process, I've done my socials processes, I've done all those jobs. When things actually start coming in,

00:44:13.37
Rachel
It'll be like, Oh my gosh, I feel, you know, this is amazing. I've got to reply to something instead of sitting there and thinking, please, I need to get a reply to something. I need to, you know, take that out of it.

00:44:25.52
Rachel
PR makes such a big difference, but it's part of a wider machine. Um, and just working on the process and adding that into what you're doing is the big thing.

00:44:33.64
Isobel Anderson
Mm hmm.

00:44:34.94
Rachel
That's the big thing that you've done.

00:44:37.05
Isobel Anderson
ah Okay, great. I love that. so So I think it sounds like regardless of whether you get any, you know, anything placed in any kinds of publications, regardless of you even have any replies, there's a couple of things that i I kind of picked up there that you recommend people do. And the first one is acknowledge the work that you've put in, acknowledge that you've actually, you have achieved the thing that you set out to achieve as in you did the work.

00:45:05.36
Isobel Anderson
you know You did your research, you did your planning, you you pitched, you put yourself out there, you followed up.

00:45:10.02
Rachel
Yes.

00:45:10.55
Isobel Anderson
That in itself is worthy of celebration. That is you doing the job. You've shown up, you've done the job. And so I feel like I almost want to put like another task in our prep phase, which is maybe write a list of what other things you're going to be proud of in how you, what you've brought to this process, how you've shown up.

00:45:31.09
Isobel Anderson
What will you be proud of no matter what the outcome is on the other side? so that when you get to that other side you can have that little conversation with yourself where you say well look I did this I did this you know I i pitched to 10 places I researched them really well I was really clear about the kind of coverage I think they you know I was going for I got all my assets together like all of that is stuff to be really really proud of because it is work it does take time um so that's the first thing I'm kind of thinking is from what you said is like acknowledge what you've done and not acknowledge the work you've done

00:45:55.25
Rachel
yeah

00:46:04.37
Isobel Anderson
And then secondly, it sounds like maybe you're saying like, put some goals in place for next time. So have a think like, where when would my next pitching period be? um And also, what might my new goals be for that?

00:46:16.71
Rachel
Yeah.

00:46:18.87
Isobel Anderson
Would it be I i contact 15 people?

00:46:19.17
Rachel
Yeah.

00:46:20.87
Isobel Anderson
Would it be that I get, now that I know everything I know about PR from this first time, do I get more specific about the types of coverage I'm looking for? Have I learned about the types of coverage I might be good for in that publication or another one?

00:46:35.27
Isobel Anderson
um So does does that feel fair, Rachel?

00:46:35.98
Rachel
ye Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

00:46:39.14
Isobel Anderson
Yeah.

00:46:39.75
Rachel
Yeah. And it and it it can be sort of an ever evolving thing as well, you know. um And I think with with things changing in the media landscape so much, you know, writers change really often.

00:46:51.86
Rachel
um The frequency of of magazines being published or where they're published changes, you know, constantly as well. You might want to, you might be doing um some different like sort of UK live dates, let's say, or a tour.

00:47:05.21
Rachel
So you might want to go back to your targets and go, right, I'm going to add some local targets for each city that I'm going to in the next six months and reach out to all those people. So depending on the activity that you're doing, um you might want to then like a lot of artists, for example.

00:47:23.13
Rachel
that are on a festival bill will then go, right, well, the festival's in Birmingham, I'm gonna add some Birmingham targets to my sheet, or I'm gonna reach out to the um the festival's marketing department and say, hey, I'm playing on this day, I'm totally up for helping out with any kind of promo, so if anything comes through, let me know, because I work on festivals as well. So any artist that reaches out to me and says, oh, hey, I'm available, by the way, it doesn't matter how big an artist's name they are,

00:47:50.21
Rachel
If I know I've got someone there that's eager, if an opportunity comes in for someone to talk to an artist, I'll go to that person because I know that they've put themselves out there and said, hey, I'm free, I'll do i'll do what you need me to do. So I think it's it' learning about all the different ways that you can put yourself out there.

00:48:08.62
Rachel
in know in within PR and the more that you are doing it consistently, the more you go, oh, i and I can also do this or, you know, there's ah there's an event, um there's ah a conference, a music conference coming to my city. I'm going to put myself forward as a speaker to, um you know, talk on a panel about what it is being a music industry, in the music industry currently as an artist.

00:48:29.34
Rachel
I'm or or a creative or whatever it is that you do so it's about. Anyway that you can put yourself out there as well and again i know that can sometimes be a little bit iffy for people to do that i'm so is taking it you know take it a step at a time or whatever you're comfortable with.

00:48:45.28
Rachel
But again, just taking on board that knowledge um that, oh, this is part this can be part of my PR, this is part of putting myself out there and um raising my profile and building my audience. And it becomes, again, just more of a part of the process, you know part of the, you know great, I've ticked this off, I've ticked that off, and your confidence will build the more you do this.

00:49:08.22
Isobel Anderson
Yeah. And then what about in the the very, you know, exciting um scenario that we do all our pitching and we do get some coverage placed and maybe one or more different bits of coverage.

00:49:18.10
Rachel
Yeah.

00:49:22.20
Isobel Anderson
What's your advice for when that happens? Because I'm guessing, you know, ah likewise, it's good to not just, you know, do nothing and just say, right, job done.

00:49:30.83
Rachel
Yeah, it's one of the most important bits is when you actually get coverage is actually leveraging it and actually making sure everybody knows about it because um you kind of want to make these sort of PR wins work for you as much as possible.

00:49:46.32
Rachel
And not everyone that perhaps, let's let's say you place a review on a on a website, you know the people that read that website and go and check out that review, um if you don't share it wider,

00:49:59.72
Rachel
they're the only people that actually see it. So you want to be using that link to your review in every possible way you can. So obviously you want to be sharing it on your socials, you might want to set up a page on your website or as a highlight reel on press that you've gotten and add it to that. um You might want to add it to your newsletter or anything that sort of goes out to fans or sort of ah a marketing database. You might want to add, if it was, I don't know, you've got full-star review or something, you might want to add it to other marketing um assets like artwork that you're sharing. You might want to pull quotes out of it. You could put a quote in a press release or on your biography or on your website.

00:50:40.10
Rachel
You want to pick apart that piece of coverage and use it in as many ways as you possibly can um and use it to then help you springboard to the next thing. I think once you start getting, and and again, don't think that you've got to get loads and loads of coverage for it to make a difference.

00:50:57.49
Rachel
if you've got two or three pieces and you can pick apart those bits of coverage and just use them in as many ways as you can that can that can last you a few months really until you get into your next cycle and you'll have so much confidence um from you know having won something and being able to use it you know within your your marketing that it will really give you confidence to do it again um and hopefully you know it's three different kinds of pieces of coverage as well so which is why it's important to at the outset go, right, what are all the different kinds of ways I can put myself out there?

00:51:31.61
Isobel Anderson
Mm.

00:51:32.36
Rachel
And one of them might be a, you know, a radio interview or a podcast interview that you can record and then you can, you know, use some of the sound bites in different places. some people make show reels if they if they do lots of um sort of telly bits or youtube things um all podcasts that are recorded so just think about all the different ways you can use it i've actually got a leveraging um sheet where you just tick off okay i've added it to my email signature i've added it to the website i've done make sure you're using it in it as many ways as you can because so many people will just go great i got this review

00:51:57.39
Isobel Anderson
Excellent. Mm.

00:52:07.18
Rachel
And onto the next thing now, like, no, use it, celebrate it. It's so, it again, it's hard one. You got it. Use it.

00:52:15.27
Isobel Anderson
Great advice. I think, you know, even even like things like email signatures, we don't think about that, do we? But also like Instagram biogs and all those different places that people are going to be coming across you and your work.

00:52:23.52
Rachel
Yeah.

00:52:27.91
Isobel Anderson
So yeah, it makes total sense. And just so that if anyone's wondering, I'm going to put links to Rachel's wonderful resources in the show notes so people can go and download those too. um So i' that's really helpful. I feel like you've kind of taken us through this um PR campaign process. um I'd really love to ask you as well though Rachel, are you seeing any trends in music PR as we're moving into 2025?

00:52:57.90
Rachel
Yeah, I mean, like we've said, there are so many constant changes with but the music industry and PR and music PR. I guess one of the bigger ones, are so i guess which we've kind of touched on as well, is just sort of people depending on social media and TikTok especially, you know, there's a lot of um There's a lot of chat around TikTok and if you have a ah good TikTok following or you've got good TikTok numbers, so if that's enough to ah keep a campaign going or you don't have to do any other kind of um promotion if you are doing TikTok really well. And I think that can work for some people. um I think that, again, PR is best being one of the cogs in the big marketing wheel. So I think it's still really important

00:53:48.89
Rachel
but it needs to be with everything else. I don't think artists these days just rely on PR. I think that social media is a big thing, PR is still a big thing and they work best together. um And I think as much as um social trends will continue to um point out, TikTok is most important, Instagram is so important, um I still think it is is important to factor in PR.

00:54:15.26
Rachel
just for the credibility points. um I think AI as well, is you know there's there's ah there's a lot of talk around AI in lots of different industries, and I guess particularly in music and especially especially with sort of ah for creators, for writers, um there's a lot going on. um um AI can be really helpful with PR if you just started doing your own PR and you're like, how can AI help me? I think that PRs can are using it to help them create content. And I think that that can be a good thing. So for example, um I think a really good way of writing a biography, for example, is

00:54:53.75
Rachel
to ask yourself questions, to set out questions to ask yourself and then answer them. Because otherwise trying to sort of just write paragraphs about yourself is really difficult.

00:55:05.05
Isobel Anderson
um

00:55:05.85
Rachel
So I think write question and answer, question and answer. And then you could put that into an AI and say, write write me a biography, see what it comes back with, but never ever just go with whatever it gives you. Always put it in another document, go through it, edit it, chop it about. um But I think it gives you the opportunity to go Okay, well, I'm not going to do this because it's it's too much. I can't do it. AI, I guess, just is helpful in that way that is sort of can move a process along quite quickly. Um, and you can help and it will help you do that. Um, similarly with a press release, you know, if you've never written a press release before and you're like, Oh, I'm not really sure what I'm doing here. Just putting all of the information that you have into AI and saying, come up with a press release for this. Again, don't take it at face value.

00:55:55.10
Rachel
then take that out and make sure it works for you. You know, rewrite it where it needs rewriting. I think it's really useful. So I think it will, um again, continue to be helpful in PR. And so I would encourage you to use it if you're sort of starting out and again, sort of need a bit of help. Just don't rely on it completely.

00:56:16.46
Isobel Anderson
I think that's a really good tip and I also think AI is interesting in this conversation because what I have found in using AI is that the the tone of the voice is maybe more confident than I would normally have and I think that's really really useful.

00:56:31.16
Rachel
Yeah.

00:56:34.23
Isobel Anderson
It's been quite kind of um revealing for me because i I think generally I probably have ah maybe a more confident tone than is average for women in particular. But seeing what AI did with, you know, what I've kind of been putting in is is really, like I said, it's quite revealing. I was like, wow, that is much more confident, assertive. um And so I wondered kind of on that on that topic, what do you think you, do you see that in women and PR?

00:57:04.99
Isobel Anderson
And music PR, ah do you see that a lot of women kind of maybe struggle to pick themselves up and to own their achievements and to even not even just own them, but just even recognize like their power, their worth as artists? And is that something you see more in women than other artists or maybe not?

00:57:22.36
Rachel
Yeah, I mean, i've I've experienced that myself. I mean, and I still, so yeah, I i work in PR and run a PR agency and work with artists to promote them and also to work with them on their own sort of DIY promotion. And I still struggle to promote myself. I think it's a human condition. And I think especially for women, it's really, really difficult. um I think a lot of people perhaps can adopt this sort of fake it till you make it thing and just exude confidence. I don't have that. And I'm also,

00:57:51.79
Rachel
an introvert, I'm very introverted, and when I first tried to get into PR, which was obviously quite a long time ago, but I thought that i it wouldn't work for me because everyone was like, oh you have to be really loud to do PR, you have to be really like, you know, commander room, and you know, be the loudest person to cut through the noise, you know, to stand out. And while I agree that it's very competitive and, ah you know,

00:58:19.06
Rachel
being a being the loudest person in the room can sometimes be effective. Actually I found that people that are more introverted or much better communicators, um they they consider what they say. Like I check it check a press release or check a pitch a million times so I don't want to you know make a mistake. um So I think that there are ways of being um quiet or introverted or you know not confident and still being able to work to your strengths to promote yourself um and just finding um finding that that sort of comfort zone where

00:59:00.00
Rachel
you can lean into what your strengths are and use that to promote yourself without thinking. I have to be the loud person here, I have to shout louder than this person. um And I think perhaps as I've gotten older, i've I've become more comfortable with the fact that I'm very quiet and introverted and actually for PR that's a strength. So it's the same thing for artists. If you feel like you're too quiet to do PR, you don't have the confidence.

00:59:28.41
Rachel
it's actually a strength you you know and you've got to lean into that because otherwise if you try and be the loudest person in your room and you're not then that's going to make you feel really uncomfortable and it's just not going to work so I think that um yeah it is it can be difficult to um to navigate this kind of industry if you if you struggle to sell yourself but

00:59:34.68
Isobel Anderson
Thank you.

00:59:54.61
Rachel
you know it You don't have to be loud to be able to do it. You just need to work out what is comfortable for you and work within that perimeter. And that is that's enough.

01:00:04.81
Isobel Anderson
Yeah. Brilliant. Well, the the last thing I'm just going to ask is um Rachel, if people have been listening to this and are feeling just a you know a bit more excited about their PR, um a bit more kind of informed as well about what the music PR process is.

01:00:21.51
Isobel Anderson
and they would like to find out about working with you, um either, you know, inquiring about you doing their PR, but also doing ah mentoring or coaching with you on them doing their own PR. How can they find out and get in touch?

01:00:36.75
Rachel
um So the easiest way would be to go to houseofdiy.co.uk and you can see a bit of a breakdown of of how I work with people. It tends to be like strategy sessions where you're booking with me and we'll have a couple of hours to sort of chat through um your campaign and then you get all of my resources as well and then you can go off and do your thing. um If you want to just ask me some questions, um you can follow me on um Instagram.

01:01:04.10
Rachel
on House of DIY PR and feel free to just, you know, ask any follow up questions from this. I'm more than happy to answer them. um And ah yeah, but though they would be the best ways to to reach out, I think.

01:01:17.55
Isobel Anderson
Great. Oh, wonderful. Well, I will put all the links in the show notes. um But thank you so much, Rachel. for It's been really insightful and a really useful conversation. And I'm sure that there'll be people who listen to this more than once to help them with putting together their PR campaigns for their music.

01:01:33.12
Rachel
I hope so. Thank you so much for having me and and good ah good luck everyone. you You can do this and just remember to stick to the process and um celebrate the wins when you get them.

01:01:43.60
Isobel Anderson
Definitely. Fantastic.

01:01:45.94
Rachel
Thank you so much.

01:01:47.23
Isobel Anderson
Thank you.