EP#101: How to Press Your Music on Vinyl: Expert Tips from Women in Vinyl’s Jenn D'Eugenio

Are you an artist or music producer dreaming of releasing your music on vinyl? In this episode of Girls Twiddling Knobs, Isobel Anderson sits down with Jenn D'Eugenio, founder of Women in Vinyl, to uncover the fascinating process behind pressing music onto records. Jenn shares expert insights on preparing your audio and artwork for vinyl, tips for selecting the right pressing plant, and how to make your vinyl release more sustainable.

Whether you’re an independent artist exploring physical formats, a vinyl enthusiast curious about the behind-the-scenes craftsmanship, or someone considering a career in this exciting industry, this episode is packed with invaluable tips and actionable advice.

Jenn also highlights the role of women in the vinyl industry and offers a glimpse into Women in Vinyl’s resources, from educational tools to career opportunities. Don’t miss out on this comprehensive guide to vinyl pressing, sustainability, and innovation in analog sound.

Key Topics Covered:

• How to prepare audio and artwork for vinyl pressing
• The step-by-step process of creating a vinyl record
• Common mistakes to avoid when working with pressing plants
• Eco-friendly options for a sustainable vinyl release
• Career advice for women and gender-nonconforming individuals interested in the vinyl industry

Links mentioned in this episode:

• Women in Vinyl >> 
• Connect with Jenn on Instagram >>
• Infographic on the electroplating process >>
• Women in Vinyl podcast episode with Jett Galindo >>
• Women in Vinyl episode with Karyln King >>
• Vinyl Pressing Plant Directory >>
• Electroplating graphic >>

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Girls Twiddling Knobs is hosted by Isobel Anderson and produced by Isobel Anderson and Jade Bailey.

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Transcript

00:00:00.65
Isobel Anderson
So welcome to Girls' Twiddling Knobs journey. It's a pleasure to have you here.

00:00:04.82
Jenn
Likewise, thank you.

00:00:06.59
Isobel Anderson
I'm really glad that we're going to be talking about vinyl. It's a topic that we've kind of touched on sometimes, but mainly in talking about artists releasing their work or producers getting their music ready for release. But I'm really glad that we're going to be really diving into this process and from a feminist perspective, because you've set up an initiative called Women in Vinyl. And so we're going to be coming at this today from that feminist lens. So I think this is going to be really fascinating.

00:00:34.22
Jenn
ah I'm very excited.

00:00:35.52
Isobel Anderson
Yeah. Fantastic. Okay. So I would love to start off, but can you just tell our listeners who you are briefly sort of what you do and where you're joining us from today?

00:00:46.06
Jenn
So I am in Austin, Texas in the United States, and my name is Jen DiUgenio, and I'm the founder and president of Women in Vinyl, which is a nonprofit that works to educate, demystify, and diversify the vinyl industry. we really have a focus on physical media. And then I've worked in the vinyl industry for about six, seven years now. So I started at Furnace Record Pressing, and now I work as the vice president of Gold Rush Vinyl.

00:01:13.48
Isobel Anderson
Awesome, okay. And what was it that made you get into vinyl? Because it has had a massive resurgence, but it's still quite a niche industry, isn't it?

00:01:23.09
Jenn
It is, as an industry, it's funny. I started collecting vinyl when I was in high school. I found my parents' record collection and thought, wow, at this artwork. It's such a fun way to consume music. And I got a job, my first job, I started buying records at this dilapidated old record store with a big wall of moldy oldies. And it was just a a super fun. and sensory sort of way to experience music. And so going through high school, you don't really have advisors that say, hey, you should go work at a record label. so I found my way here late, actually, and is something that we'll probably talk about later, but that I find a lot of women accidentally end up here.

00:02:07.05
Jenn
And that was sort of my journey as well. I went to school for textile design, and I ended up designing kids clothes. And then with the resurgence of vinyl, I found um a record pressing plant was opening in DC where I'm from. And it's funny because my mom was like, come home, there's Record pressing place here and so so that's sort of how I ended up in this was you know they took a chance on me and Sales customer service and sort of advising or my passions and you know it just was kind of a perfect fit

00:02:37.75
Isobel Anderson
Brilliant. And so what led you then to set up Women in Vinyl? I presume you had some experiences being in the vinyl industry and the record industry. What made you think actually there needs to be a platform where we talk about the women in this industry?

00:02:55.42
Jenn
I think part of it was when I, well, it's kind of twofold. So I started working at Furness and the vice president, now CEO, was a woman. And I started working with a lot of record labels and found that there were a lot of women working behind the scenes. And so I thought, how come I never knew that there was a place, an opportunity like this for me before, you know, that no one ever said, go do these things. These are some really amazing opportunities.

00:03:23.62
Jenn
And so I wanted to shine a light on those women and their journeys and to show other people that these careers existed. Coming from a career advising background, I thought you this was a really great way to get younger people interested and excited about the industry. And then on the flip side of that, kind of the collector angle was you being a collector for so long, there was this meme going around on Instagram.

00:03:48.48
Jenn
And it was of this 1950s couple and the guy is looking at a record and he's like talking about whatever variant, blah, blah, blah, this record that he's holding and the woman is knitting and it's like, I could give a crap or whatever.

00:04:04.60
Jenn
And everybody was reposting it.

00:04:04.74
Isobel Anderson
Huh.

00:04:07.10
Jenn
Like it was just every single guy was just like, oh, I feel this meme or whatever.

00:04:10.87
Isobel Anderson
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:04:13.13
Jenn
And my husband and I are both record collectors, but I have over 50 variants of Master of Reality. So I'm the guy in that picture. I was just like, wait, that's not right.

00:04:23.52
Jenn
That's not a correct representation.

00:04:25.47
Jenn
And so all of those things combined is really the long-winded answer as to why I started Women in Final.

00:04:31.21
Isobel Anderson
Yeah. And can I just ask for anyone that's not familiar with vinyl, what do you mean by a variant?

00:04:36.82
Jenn
So there are different colorways or different presses that came out, like maybe it's a remastered version, it's on 180 gram, maybe it's a different color, whatever. And so those are the different variations of a record.

00:04:52.07
Jenn
And the interesting thing is working in a pressing plant, seeing all of these variations on the record. I mean, I have one behind me that's, you know, a black cover with white writing when normally it was purple. So, you know, it got me thinking how did this happen, especially in a time when it was so different than it is now to get vinyl pressed.

00:05:13.98
Isobel Anderson
And I should say to anyone who's not watching the podcast on YouTube, Jen, you are surrounded by vinyl. I'm sure this is just the tip of the iceberg of your collection, but you've got you a ton of vinyl all stacked on shelves behind you and you're joining us from your home. So I'm guessing that both you and your partner collect vinyl. massive record shop in your house.

00:05:36.63
Isobel Anderson
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So yeah, that makes sense that you're seeing it from the industry point of view. You were seeing it from and a collector and enthusiast point of view that, you know, women were maybe not being encouraged to either go into that as a career, but also were not encouraged to, see it as something they should even be interested in.

00:05:58.33
Jenn
Exactly.

00:05:58.67
Isobel Anderson
So yeah. So, so you put, you started women in vinyl and I take, I i i gather that it started as a blog.

00:06:05.53
Jenn
It did.

00:06:06.57
Isobel Anderson
And now it's grown to much, much more than that. So can you tell us a little bit about women women vinyl as well?

00:06:12.24
Jenn
Yeah, so when I started it, I did just want to highlight women working in the industry, and it was a very simple blog. People filled out a form, submitted some photos, and then every week on Instagram, I would share those stories. Since then, has grown into a nonprofit, so we're a 501c3.

00:06:30.01
Jenn
And we are an educational nonprofit, so we have worked with companies to create scholarship opportunities, internships, and continue to be a community organization where we find ways to educate the community as well. You know, a lot of times we'll have people say, like, oh, well, I'm a guy, I can't be involved. and That's not true. You know, we support having allies as well and we need them. And really it's we are a group of women who are dispensing this information and creating a safe space for people to learn and ask questions and see people like them in these roles.

00:07:10.34
Isobel Anderson
Yeah and I mean so for anyone that hasn't come across your site we'll obviously leave a link in the show notes but there's loads of great information on there apart from you know all the other stuff like you've got a shop where you can buy these great t-shirts and you've got a book and you've got a jobs board um you've got resources like Herstory of Women in Vinyl Industry which is fascinating I was just looking at it before we came on this interview and there's so many women I've never heard of you've also got, like, great things like how to start a record label, which I think a lot of our listeners to Girls Swimming Mobs will be really interested in. I think that for a lot of women artists, we have to or want to release our own work. And so it's something that I hear a lot is questions about, should I start a record label? How do I start a record label? So I really urge our listeners to go and check out your site because there's loads of stuff on there that I think they're going to find really useful and fascinating as well.

00:08:05.99
Isobel Anderson
So i i I feel like we should maybe start by thinking about, from the listeners' perspective, I know a lot of them will be putting together their releases and a big question that people ask or maybe don't even think to ask.

00:08:20.76
Isobel Anderson
is what do I need to, what format do I need my music to be in, in order for it to be pressed on vinyl? Could we maybe kind of go into that a bit before we then go into the process, the whole process of making vinyl?

00:08:34.86
Isobel Anderson
Is that okay, Jen?

00:08:36.24
Jenn
Absolutely. Yeah, i love this question and that we're going to talk about that process because it's really what I do day in and day out.

00:08:37.07
Isobel Anderson
Great.

00:08:40.68
Isobel Anderson
Yeah.

00:08:42.73
Jenn
And the more we can educate everybody on how to do that, the easier it will be for everyone.

00:08:48.31
Isobel Anderson
Yeah, definitely.

00:08:50.51
Jenn
Yeah, so if you are an artist or a label who is submitting audio to be pressed to vinyl It's really important that you submit it as 24-bit wave files Ideally you would want to have either the tracks as a complete A side with space built in or and then a B side you for a 33 rpm record you want no more than a 22 max 24 minutes per side, some places won't even cut over 22 minutes. that's just physically because if you think about the cut as being one continuous group, then physically you need enough space to be able to fit that audio onto a lacquer.

00:09:32.98
Jenn
So you want to pay attention to dynamics, and that's another reason why you want to make sure that your audio is mastered for vinyl. A lot of people will want to skip this step, but honestly, if you think about your WAV file and how the audio could be so compressed, especially for digital, it's kind of like that thick candy bar.

00:09:54.45
Jenn
If it's on vinyl that way, then your needle is going to hop around and so the listener is going to have to do a lot of turntable adjusting in order for it to sound good and for you to be able to approve that test pressing. So if you get it mastered for vinyl, then you're leaving space in that waveform for the needle to work through those grooves.

00:10:12.11
Isobel Anderson
Okay, so 24-bit depth. Sample rate 48 kilohertz, right?

00:10:19.80
Jenn
Yeah, 48.96 is great.

00:10:22.18
Isobel Anderson
Yeah. Um, and then leaving enough headroom in the actual master. So that, so you're not kind of a lot of the time, not you say digital, it's quite compressed and there's not a lot of headroom for, well, yeah, there's not a lot of headroom. So, so you're saying for vinyl, leave more headroom so that when it gets pressed onto the vinyl, there's more room for that needle to do what it does.

00:10:46.82
Jenn
Exactly. Yes. I mean, the groove is the size of a human hair. So when you're trying to add all of that context in that groove, you have to think about that from, you know, a mastering perspective. And I would say like, if someone wants to get really into the nitty gritty on this,

00:11:05.02
Jenn
We have a podcast episode with Jet Galindo, who's a Grammy-nominated lacquer cutter and mastering engineer. And she's also on our board.

00:11:14.37
Jenn
And she goes really in-depth into this in in in one of our episodes.

00:11:17.04
Isobel Anderson
Oh, excellent.

00:11:18.18
Jenn
So yeah, I'll send you the link to have as well.

00:11:20.77
Isobel Anderson
Yeah, we'll add it to the show notes because I'm sure there will be some people who they really love to go nerdy on this stuff.

00:11:25.76
Jenn
Yeah.

00:11:25.69
Isobel Anderson
So we will definitely share that.

00:11:26.04
Jenn
Yeah. Yeah.

00:11:28.16
Isobel Anderson
Yeah. Okay. But that's really good. I think, I think for most people who they just want to get the, the kind of headlines, 24 bit 48, 96 kilohertz sample rate.

00:11:40.21
Isobel Anderson
Good enough headroom so when you're working with a mastering engineer or if you're mastering it yourself, leave a love headroom. What I mean by headroom for anyone that's listening is that it only goes to a certain um decibel level. So what would you recommend? Would you recommend like minus 12 decibels or is that too quiet?

00:11:59.35
Jenn
Uh, that is kind of, I'm not a hundred percent sure on that. We don't get too far into that on my side of the world.

00:12:04.24
Isobel Anderson
yeah cool okay well we could we can listen to that record but a lot of the time for for kind of digital releases it would be between minus three and minus six so i'm guessing that you're looking at more like minus nine minus ten for vinyl

00:12:05.10
Jenn
So, but yeah.

00:12:19.42
Jenn
Yeah.

00:12:19.94
Isobel Anderson
um um and And I mean I have my own experience of of getting my music pressed on vinyl and it was so different to you know when I got the the CDs made or just did digital files which kind of seems obvious but when you're an artist and you haven't had the luxury of pressing vinyl there's only one release that I've actually pressed vinyl on because Obviously it is expensive and it takes a long time as well in comparison, but it was quite a process of going through the test presses and going back and forth. Can you maybe explain to people why that is and what happens? You know, why, why the, what you deliver really impacts as well, how much test pressing you might have to do.

00:13:02.47
Jenn
Yeah, so the process, I'll start with the process from when audio is submitted. So if you submit your audio to a pressing plant, anybody that's pressing in the US that doesn't have an overseas arm in Europe or the UK would be cutting to a lacquer. And the lacquer is a disc that's coated in nitrocellulose. So if you think of like a nail polish consistency, that's what your audio is being cut into.

00:13:27.90
Jenn
And then again, it's that one consecutive groove that's being cut into that and it's through a gemstone stylus. So the vibrations are cutting that into the record. Once that lacquer is done and you cut an A side lacquer and a B side lacquer, then that gets shipped off to an electroplating facility.

00:13:45.56
Jenn
The electroplating facility is then going to take that lacquer and spray it with silver. They're going to put that into a chemical bath, which then grows through nickel, a stamper. um um And there is a thing called a father or a master. There's a thing called a mother. And then there's your stamper. We have a really great infographic on that because it's a whole thing.

00:14:06.54
Jenn
That can be confusing for people. Most anyone that is new to vinyl and that isn't going to press thousands and thousands of records probably only needs a two step.

00:14:08.72
Isobel Anderson
Mm hmm.

00:14:17.76
Jenn
Some pressing plants might suggest that you do a one step. I suggest spending the extra money if you have the option to do two-step and that is because if you do need to repress it down the line then you have a mother to go back to to create more stampers.

00:14:33.94
Isobel Anderson
Okay.

00:14:34.71
Jenn
If you don't, if you just create the one step then your father or your master becomes your stamper and when that happens you have no backup to then continue to press more records.

00:14:46.86
Isobel Anderson
Okay.

00:14:47.79
Jenn
So anyway after

00:14:49.52
Isobel Anderson
It's kind of making me, sorry, it's making me think of sourdough for some reason. Just, you know, like there's a starter and then you give a bit to somebody and then they can make more.

00:14:53.46
Jenn
Yeah. Get your starter.

00:14:59.61
Isobel Anderson
Yeah.

00:15:00.53
Jenn
Yeah.

00:15:01.74
Isobel Anderson
Yeah.

00:15:02.52
Jenn
Yeah. So if someone's really following along with this or is looking at the graphic that we can share, your father can be used as your stamper. So if if do a two step, then you create that mother so you can make more stampers.

00:15:15.18
Jenn
But that initial father will be the stamper that gets sent to the pressing plant. And so once the pressing plant receives that stamper, we put it into the machine and we press your record. So we fill the hopper of the press with PVC. PVC that we use is very similar to what is in your house for piping. It just has additives in it like heat stabilizers and things like that that create um ability for it to sound good.

00:15:41.73
Jenn
And so we will press a handful of copies of your test pressings, and then that is what you want to listen to to make sure that everything sounds okay. And I think a lot of people, the biggest thing that new people are confused about when they're pressing records is they're going to be like,

00:15:59.75
Jenn
the dynamics are off or this channel I'm hearing something versus on this side and so we ask that you listen to them on multiple turntables and we list you listen to all five that you typically receive because anything like that is not something that the pressing plant can fix.

00:16:16.51
Jenn
That is an audio mastering issue. And so you're listening for, are my tracks on the right sides? Is the space between tracks correct? Is there anything that's taking me out of the listening experience, like a continuous popping or ticking? Because those are things that would be pressing errors or that we could then fix.

00:16:35.64
Isobel Anderson
Hmm.

00:16:36.69
Jenn
So I think that's the biggest thing to note because a lot of first time people will hear something and not realize how different it's going to sound on vinyl because you are pressing into plastic.

00:16:45.18
Isobel Anderson
Yeah.

00:16:46.57
Jenn
So like digitally you might hear all of that tiny little nitty gritty things that you wanted to hear in your mix and that might not be the same when you press it to a record.

00:16:56.24
Isobel Anderson
Yeah definitely and that was definitely my experience we actually had to remix and then remaster the album for vinyl because um there was a lot of sibilance so yeah that started coming through and it was just really distracting um and so yeah it was something even though on the digital file it sounded fine we had to then correct it and so send it off again

00:17:09.04
Jenn
Yes.

00:17:13.41
Jenn
Yeah.

00:17:22.48
Isobel Anderson
And so I, yeah, in my experience, if I was, you know, going to press final again, I would give myself a lot of time. because you want to make sure that, especially if this is your first time pressing onto vinyl and making vinyl part of your merch, there, there is a bit of a process, isn't there?

00:17:41.20
Jenn
Absolutely, and I think another piece of advice that I would say to anybody that's releasing a record for the first time, or honestly any time, don't set your release date until your test crossings are approved because that is a big thing where

00:17:42.51
Isobel Anderson
Yeah.

00:17:53.80
Isobel Anderson
Mm.

00:17:57.82
Jenn
If something is wrong and you do have to go back to cutting again, it's going to set your entire timeline back. Just realistically, know consider a week for cutting, a couple weeks for plating, and then your metal parts have to get to the pressing plant. If the pressing plant doesn't already have a plating facility, which most don't, and then it has to get in the queue for test pressings, be queue seed, approved, sent, then you have to listen to it.

00:18:24.23
Jenn
So you can imagine if anything's wrong, consider four-ish weeks that you're going to have to go back to the beginning.

00:18:31.92
Isobel Anderson
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Okay, so so I feel like there's a good picture we've got here in terms of what artists need to consider. So we've talked about the bit depth, the sample rate, headroom, you talked about that they need to produce the vinyl masters as two sides, an A side and a B side.

00:18:54.80
Isobel Anderson
So that will be no longer usually than 22 minutes per side. So you're kind of, for anyone that's a bit confused by that. Usually you'd have your tracks separately and because it's going to be released as digital files or it's going to be pressed on CD with vinyl, you would have say four or five tracks all coming one after the other on one WAV file. And that would be side A and you'd do the same for side B. So you'd be splitting your album up. What if you've got an album that is longer than 44 minutes?

00:19:33.81
Jenn
So it depends on your budget. You know, I usually suggest to people if they're able to do a double LP, excuse me, you could do that. That is going to double a lot of your cost. So otherwise, if it's just barely over, sometimes again, we can fit that on. If that if we do try to squeeze it on, say you have like 24 minutes and, you know, change.

00:20:03.23
Jenn
It will be a lower, it'll sound quieter. So if you put it on your turntable and you realize from one record to the next that yours is quieter, it might be because you have too much music. There are really great things that you can do though. So if you had enough music for three sides versus two sides.

00:20:23.03
Jenn
you could still do a double LP and do a really fun etching on the back or something like that. Or you could just leave one track off. I know it's hard for people when they're considering their whole piece and release one of those tracks as an exclusive digital release.

00:20:34.93
Isobel Anderson
Mm hmm.

00:20:40.07
Jenn
are a lot of options and I really recommend, and most of the women in vinyl crew really does suggest, trying to work directly with a pressing plant. I know brokers can be really appealing.

00:20:50.93
Jenn
but you don't know who's cutting, you don't know who's helping you sort of through that whole process. And if you're working directly with a pressing plant, then the customer service people like myself should be able to help you through these options to get the best package that's also the best price for you.

00:21:07.95
Isobel Anderson
Yeah. Okay, great. So maybe, I'm thinking of like, let's go through that process, maybe a bit more kind of start to finish, because I know we kind of come at it from the artist perspective. But let's go through that process of start to finish of what happens when a track, what happens when an artist gets their music pressed onto vinyl. So, but I would like to kind of know, so We've got to that point of an artist has recorded their work, their music. They have listened to this podcast so they know that they need to get their test presses confirmed and everything like all the the T's crossed and the I's dotted.

00:21:51.01
Isobel Anderson
So they know they've got to do that so that they're not going to like, schedule their release yet. But they've got their master files and they've had it mastered for vinyl according to the guidelines you've given. How do they go about finding a pressing plant? Like you suggested, you know, because there might be some people listening and thinking, well, I haven't got the first idea about where do I go? Who do I get in touch with? Is it better to go with a big plant? Is it better to go with a local plant?

00:22:17.28
Isobel Anderson
So what's that first part of that process of finding a good pressing plant to work with?

00:22:22.16
Jenn
So there's a site called vinylpressingplants .com. It's a pretty good resource of all of the different pressing plants that exist. I will say just a disclaimer that you can pay to be kind of like at the top of their list, but they do break out if someone is a broker or not.

00:22:40.65
Jenn
I mean, the other thing, honestly, is you could just Google it and find like pressing plant near me really what I would suggest. And then look at the reviews. Part of considering you want your record to be pressed, we always say support your local record store.

00:22:55.99
Jenn
But another thing that we're really championing at Women in Vinyl is support your local pressing plant because you're able to work directly with someone in your backyard or close to where you could pick up your records. You can hopefully get some photo and video of it being done and really have more close contact with that whole process. The size of the plant, you know, really Yeah, cost might be a little bit less, but this is something that you're really investing in.

00:23:22.10
Jenn
And I think that's the most important thing. So the more you can understand who's making it and how they're making it, I think is important. So yeah, that would be my suggestion.

00:23:33.12
Isobel Anderson
Yeah. I'm just thinking about cost. What do you think is a kind of realistic budget for an artist, an independent DIY artist to be putting aside for vinyl in their release?

00:23:44.61
Jenn
I would say for the vinyl itself, a couple thousand dollars is realistic. And that will vary.

00:23:51.11
Isobel Anderson
What would that get you?

00:23:53.20
Jenn
That'll get you a single LP. It'll be your cutting, your plating, your test pressings, your vinyl itself, your center labels, your jacket, and then shrink wrapper, poly bag, and then all the assembly kind of required for that.

00:24:09.03
Jenn
Most pressing plants do not quote shipping when you first get that. So keep that in mind. And that's another reason why both you economically and also just ease and money, it could be a good option to go somewhere local.

00:24:24.26
Isobel Anderson
Yeah. um so so obviously people will need to factor in things like artwork and getting their actual kind of sleeve designed.

00:24:33.61
Jenn
Yes.

00:24:34.15
Isobel Anderson
So that would also be potentially, I know some artists do that themselves these days, but that could potentially be another cost. But that's how, when you say $2,000, how many, what's the number, what's the run number for those vinyl with that kind of budget?

00:24:49.31
Jenn
It can really vary. It'll vary a lot depending on the pressing plant. You'd be able to get color in some instances. Maybe you want 140 gram versus 180 gram. So maybe you want a gatefold jacket instead of a single pocket jacket. And so there's a lot of variables in that. So I would say when you're looking in the 200 to 500 range, that would be a good number to know.

00:25:14.79
Jenn
and then it could go up or down kind of from there depending on extras.

00:25:14.95
Isobel Anderson
Yeah.

00:25:19.33
Isobel Anderson
Yeah. No, that's useful to know. Okay. So, so we imagined that we found our pressing plant. hopefully they are down the road and we can actually have a face-to-face conversation. we settle on a budget and all of those things. We deliver our, our WAV files in the right format for vinyl. then what happens? You did take us through this process a bit before Jen, but take us through it again and maybe in a bit more detail, what happens from then?

00:25:47.97
Jenn
Yeah, so I would receive your audio files and then probably a deposit of some variety. And then I would send off your WAV files through our production manager to a lacquer cutter.

00:26:02.30
Jenn
The lacquer cutter would then take your audio and they would cut it using a lathe with that gemstone stylus. And they would cut your A side and your B side. They would then alert us that.

00:26:13.60
Isobel Anderson
Could I just, could I just ask one question actually?

00:26:15.94
Jenn
Yeah.

00:26:15.85
Isobel Anderson
Cause it's something we haven't talked about yet. What, what is it? How do they cut it? Like the, the such a basic question, but you know, how does vinyl work? You know, there might be a lot of people kind of listening to this thinking, okay, I know there's a groove and I hear Jen talking about them cutting it with this Jen stone, but how does that work? How does the sound come through from that?

00:26:40.88
Jenn
So it's interesting because a lot of people, there was a whole MOFI thing that happened this past year where there was a lot of people that were upset that it didn't stay in an analog chain throughout the entire process.

00:26:56.99
Jenn
But realistically, when we get your digital audio file, the lacquer cutter is then going to put it into a like Pro Tools or cutting program and then feed that into what your lathe, which looks like it could look like a turntable. They're a little bit.

00:27:12.54
Jenn
cooler and nicer than that. And then that stylus, just like your record would play, that gemstone cuts your audio through vibrations into your lacquer.

00:27:17.88
Isobel Anderson
Thank you.

00:27:25.09
Jenn
And so that's sort of the magic of how all of that works. It's kind of hard to wrap your mind around.

00:27:32.33
Isobel Anderson
Yeah.

00:27:32.67
Jenn
But I would really like recommend people checking out some, if you go to our features and look at some of the lacquer cutters, like if you just search that at the bottom, you can see some of their Instagram and social media and really see how it works because it's really cool to watch.

00:27:48.90
Jenn
And sometimes you'll see those images of like magnified groove, and it will have the cutter head in it. And you can see how the peaks and valleys look.

00:27:57.64
Jenn
And it's really fascinating. Yeah.

00:28:00.20
Isobel Anderson
It's sort of, it's mind bending, isn't it?

00:28:02.18
Jenn
it

00:28:03.17
Isobel Anderson
And it's amazing that that technology is so, you know, it's so long standing now and it's mind, and obviously it's the original way that we started to replicating music across media and

00:28:16.38
Jenn
Yeah, and I mean, you might also see something called a lathe cut. And a lathe cut is different in that you're cutting into PETG plastic. So the disc is already made and they're cutting directly into that.

00:28:30.57
Jenn
So that could be something just to note here too. It's the same or similar process, but doesn't go through all of the steps that we talked about. And so it's a different experience. It's not always hi-fi sound. Some lacquer or some lathe cutters do have the ability to do that, but others cut like mono low-fi, like just different than a normal record.

00:28:53.06
Jenn
So kind of a whole other conversation, but someone listening may say, Oh, I, I saw a lathe cut option. What is that?

00:28:59.81
Isobel Anderson
Mm-hmm.

00:28:59.93
Jenn
And that would be for your short run stuff.

00:29:02.33
Isobel Anderson
Okay, so lathe cart. Is there any difference in sound?

00:29:06.88
Jenn
It depends. So some It will sound, it can sound different, I guess is what I should say. Robin, who owns Red Spade Records, she's also on our board. She cuts lacquers, or sorry, she cuts lathes. And they're really awesome quality.

00:29:25.24
Jenn
And so you may not notice a huge difference. But if you were to go to someone who is doing a monocut or is doing cuts into fun, weird things like paper plates or whatever, that will obviously have a ah ah less quality sound.

00:29:43.85
Isobel Anderson
Yeah.

00:29:45.87
Jenn
Yeah.

00:29:46.83
Isobel Anderson
Okay. So, sorry, that was a little detail, but let's come back to, you've got my wire files and you have sent them to the first stage, which is that they are going to be, take us through it again.

00:29:59.28
Jenn
Yeah, so it's going to be cut.

00:29:59.82
Isobel Anderson
So, so yeah, in the kind of standard process.

00:30:03.40
Jenn
Yeah, so it's going to be given to the lathe cutter, or the sorry, blip. It's going to go to the lacquer cutter, who is going to cut your audio, your A side onto one lacquer and your B side onto the other lacquer.

00:30:17.57
Jenn
At that time, something else to note really quick for anybody that is new to this is you'll probably be asked for a catalog or matrix number. that is scribed into the dead wax of your record at this time when we're lacquer cutting. That is the space where the audio ends and then where your center hole would be. So you can, you know, if you were women in vinyl and this was your first release, maybe your alphanumeric matrix or catalog number, it would be WIV001. So just something to consider if you ever asked for that.

00:30:48.03
Isobel Anderson
And what's that used for?

00:30:50.74
Jenn
Labels and, well, a few things. So labels will use it for their actual catalog so that, you know, their number of releases. It's also a way that people identify your records on discogs for cataloging in that way. then it's a parts thing too, so it's how the pressing plant is going to track your project throughout.

00:31:13.42
Jenn
so that it's you know you could include it on your art as well on your center labels and on the spine of your jacket especially if you anticipate that you're going to do multiple releases yeah

00:31:24.49
Isobel Anderson
So it's a way to track that record and keep it together in terms of reporting and tracking it through the process of manufacturing as well. Yeah, okay, brilliant.

00:31:35.59
Isobel Anderson
So we've got our files put onto the lacquer.

00:31:40.66
Jenn
Yes.

00:31:40.80
Isobel Anderson
What happens next?

00:31:40.90
Jenn
And so now it's going to go into that electroplating process. And this is the science, extra science, I guess, part of this process, lab coats and all.

00:31:52.51
Jenn
And so essentially, when it gets to the electroplating facility, they're going to take that lacquer. The lacquer is larger than your record. So a 14-inch lacquer for a 12-inch record.

00:32:04.61
Isobel Anderson
Okay.

00:32:05.73
Jenn
that's, you know, so you have some space. They screw the lacquer onto an arm and they spray silver on that.

00:32:14.79
Isobel Anderson
Okay.

00:32:15.42
Jenn
And then they take that silvered lacquer and they put it in a chemical bath. It has all kinds of crazy chemicals which create through electronic vibration again, the growing of your stamper.

00:32:33.66
Jenn
So there's nickel in there and all of those chemicals create the metal parts that we need.

00:32:33.71
Isobel Anderson
Hmm.

00:32:36.53
Isobel Anderson
Hmm.

00:32:39.89
Jenn
So once the timer's up on that, the electroplating facility will pull apart the additional lacquer from the metal part. They'll take that metal part and they'll bring it to a sanding and punching station. So they sand the back of your metal parts so that it's smooth, because anything that's on the back of that will show through on your record.

00:33:04.60
Jenn
So if you get a hair when you're putting it into the press, that could press into the record.

00:33:04.71
Isobel Anderson
Okay.

00:33:08.22
Isobel Anderson
Wow.

00:33:09.90
Jenn
It's very fine.

00:33:10.86
Isobel Anderson
Uh-huh.

00:33:11.30
Jenn
So they sand the back and then they punch your center hole in. So they have this machine that they look through with a magnifying glass and they find the exact center and then they punch that out so that it fits on the record press.

00:33:23.03
Isobel Anderson
Uh-huh.

00:33:25.81
Jenn
And so if you ever think of like you get a record and the needle is going like swaying like this, that's due to your stamper having been off center.

00:33:36.25
Isobel Anderson
Okay.

00:33:36.92
Jenn
So if you got your test press and you're like, Oh, my needle is swaying. Why is this happening? That's probably what it is. And that can be fixed with a new stamper.

00:33:45.93
Isobel Anderson
Okay.

00:33:46.12
Jenn
So.

00:33:46.37
Isobel Anderson
That's fascinating. So you've gone through the process of putting it onto a lacquer disc and then spraying that with metal and lots of other funky chemicals and then separating those metal plates.

00:33:59.61
Isobel Anderson
So I guess you get two metal plates, right? For side A, one for side A and one for side B.

00:34:04.89
Jenn
Exactly.

00:34:05.68
Isobel Anderson
Yeah.

00:34:05.89
Jenn
Yep.

00:34:06.57
Isobel Anderson
And then that gets sanded and polished so that it's completely squeaky clean and ready for the next part of the process.

00:34:14.69
Jenn
Yes. And so that, that stamper then now is being sent to the pressing plant. If you got that mother that we talked about earlier, that's being stored at the electroplating facility. Should you need another set of stampers?

00:34:30.27
Isobel Anderson
And is the mother just another lack aversion? It's just like ah the second lack aversion.

00:34:36.47
Jenn
Yeah, so it's like your lack, so you have to think of it as like positive, negative, positive, negative. So your lacquer has those grooves in it, and then your mother is made, and then that can be played.

00:34:50.57
Jenn
So that is also like your record.

00:34:52.96
Isobel Anderson
Okay.

00:34:53.21
Jenn
And when your stamper grows on that, the thing that you're using to put into the machine, that's going to press into the record. So that's the positive. And so, yeah, so your mother can then make more stampers.

00:35:03.45
Isobel Anderson
Yeah.

00:35:07.32
Isobel Anderson
Yeah, okay.

00:35:07.94
Jenn
Yeah. Yeah, it's a ah whole thing.

00:35:09.28
Isobel Anderson
Okay, cool.

00:35:12.58
Isobel Anderson
Yeah.

00:35:12.75
Jenn
Whenever we have new sales reps, it's like, okay, try to wrap your head around. This is the most weird part of the process.

00:35:18.45
Isobel Anderson
I'm glad it's not just me.

00:35:21.79
Jenn
Yeah. And we have like, if anybody's like listening to this and wants a visual, we do have a resource that shows this so that you can understand because it can be very confusing.

00:35:22.60
Isobel Anderson
Yeah.

00:35:27.06
Isobel Anderson
Hmm.

00:35:32.04
Isobel Anderson
Yeah. Okay. Well, I can add that to the show notes as well. I think I'm going to definitely take a look at that too. Um, okay. So we've got our metal plate press and it's been brought to the test pressing site.

00:35:45.49
Jenn
Yes.

00:35:45.52
Isobel Anderson
What happens then?

00:35:47.31
Jenn
So the press ops will take those stampers and they'll load them into the machine. Most of the time your test pressings are done on black vinyl, just standard. You don't have to change out a machine for that.

00:35:58.68
Jenn
Once we press, we usually press a handful more because it is a brand new stamper. And so we press, say, 2550 to get you your five. Because we're going to want to QC those, make sure they all look good. When we find the best five copies, we're going to send those out to you. And then when you receive those test pressings, you're going to want to put them on your turntable and listen through. And I suggest just putting them on and listening to them as you would any other record.

00:36:29.45
Isobel Anderson
Mm-hmm.

00:36:29.89
Jenn
And that's because, again, it's going to be a little bit different than what you're used to or how you're used to listening to your music.

00:36:37.79
Isobel Anderson
Yeah.

00:36:37.95
Jenn
So if you're listening to it and you're like, sounds great, there's nothing that's glaring that's taking me out of this experience, then it's probably approved.

00:36:41.70
Isobel Anderson
Mm

00:36:46.32
Jenn
And if you find an issue on one, but you don't find it on all five, then that's something that can be corrected and you should still approve your test pressings.

00:36:46.26
Isobel Anderson
-hmm.

00:36:55.65
Isobel Anderson
Okay, great. And just to recap, what is it that people should be listening out for after they've done the kind of just listening with fresh ears, not trying to think too hard about it? What should they be listening out for after those first and initial listens?

00:37:11.09
Jenn
really that I mean you should be making sure that everything you submitted is as you submitted it so like everything's on the right side everything's in the right order the transition between tracks is correct really that's what you're going to be listening for and then if if you hear something like say there's a pop so it's like you're going through and it's in the music and you're like

00:37:24.22
Isobel Anderson
Okay.

00:37:33.53
Jenn
and it's consistent and it's on all five test pressings in the exact same spot, that would be something that I would flag my pressing plant for. Because what they'll do then is they'll look at their library copy of your test pressing and say, do we have it too? If they have it too, then we can investigate, is it a pressing issue where we can adjust the settings of the press to fix it?

00:37:56.51
Jenn
Or do we need to look at your mother, and ah this is another good reason to have a mother, is we can look at that and say, do we see any issue on that mother? Did any of the grooves kind of combine to create what's called a kissing groove? Or is there you something in ah in that ah in that metal that we can clean out to fix it?

00:38:19.49
Jenn
And so most of the time, little things can be fixed. Other times, you have to go back and kind start over.

00:38:26.63
Jenn
But hopefully, you you're with a pressing plant that is paying attention to their test pressings, and that won't be an issue.

00:38:33.92
Isobel Anderson
OK, yeah. and then whereas if it's something like what I described, you realise that something's not sounding the same. There's nothing out of place. There's nothing new in terms of a new type of sound like a pop. But the original audio is sounding different. And for me, it was it so recognisable that I just I knew we had to fix it. So if like me, you realise actually there's a lot more sibilance, as in the S's and Well, mainly the S's are sounding too harsh now.

00:39:04.54
Jenn
Mm hmm.

00:39:06.07
Isobel Anderson
That's something you need to go back and fix either in the master or in the mix, depending on what those different files sound like.

00:39:13.64
Jenn
Exactly, yeah.

00:39:14.75
Isobel Anderson
Yeah. Okay, cool. And also I'm guessing this is a really good reason to have a, to choose a pressing plant where you can have person to person conversations so that if you've got any questions over whether it's a test pressing thing or actually a mastering or mixing thing, you can have that conversation if you realize there's an issue with the test presses.

00:39:38.13
Jenn
Absolutely. Because if it's at a broker, then you have a middle person. So that customer service rep you've been working with then needs to go to the pressing plant and say, here's an issue, then they have to investigate. So it can just take a little bit longer you don't really know who's doing it. So if you have someone that you know is a really great lacquer cutter and they're paying attention when they're cutting your record, then hopefully Any issue that may come up, would probably find out about it ahead of time if there was a concern.

00:40:06.47
Jenn
Whereas sometimes if you go somewhere where they're just going to set it and forget it in a way, then you know might not get ahead of it.

00:40:11.76
Isobel Anderson
Yeah.

00:40:14.52
Isobel Anderson
Yeah. Okay. So let's presume that we are happy with our test presses. What happens then? And I should say, actually, before we move on, I'll just say there are a lot of artists that keep their test presses and then we'll offer them to fans as like special bundles and all that kind of stuff leading up to their release or giveaways if they have a Patreon.

00:40:33.44
Jenn
Yes.

00:40:34.96
Isobel Anderson
And so test presses can be really valuable and fans can really value them because they are such a unique kind of like behind the scenes look at the making of the record.

00:40:45.12
Jenn
Absolutely, because they normally have like either white labels or labels from the pressing plant. So yeah, it's your kind of first, it's your first piece.

00:40:54.49
Isobel Anderson
Mm-hmm.

00:40:55.41
Jenn
Yeah.

00:40:55.89
Isobel Anderson
Yeah.

00:40:57.95
Jenn
Well, so while all of this is happening, most likely you've also submitted your art files. So that's kind of the next thing to talk about. If you're working with a pressing plant who is also packing out the job for you order to have it retail ready, they will typically have templates on their site for your artwork.

00:41:17.84
Jenn
For your artwork, you want to create it as CMYK versus RGB. You want to make sure that it's a high resolution art file. So think 300 dpi or pixels per inch. And then you'll want it to be in those templates.

00:41:34.48
Jenn
You will want to, and this may seem crazy for someone listening, but you create it, create it with your template in a separate layer because you want to make sure everything is lined up correctly in that template so that it's, you know, the bleed is to the edge of those lines and everything like that.

00:41:51.16
Jenn
but you will want to be able to turn off that template so that we can print it.

00:41:54.58
Isobel Anderson
Mm hmm.

00:41:56.10
Jenn
A lot of pressing plans will have a pre-press designer. That person will look at your art and make sure it's set up correctly so you're not just doing this all by yourself. The thing to keep in mind is check for spellings, you know, double check your drummer's name, make sure everything's correct. Because while we are looking to see, is it high resolution? Is it correct color setup? Is it in the template correct? We can't look for all of that.

00:42:23.54
Jenn
I mean, if we catch something, we'll let people know.

00:42:25.66
Jenn
But, you know, we've had a couple both small artists and large labels throughout my time in this who have misspelled or realized something and then, you know, similar to your cut, you're going to have to start all over.

00:42:37.59
Jenn
So.

00:42:37.60
Isobel Anderson
Yeah. Yeah that's a point for sure and I think it can be really easily missed when you're trying to look out for all the other things and you don't realise that something's spelt wrong so yeah.

00:42:47.91
Jenn
ah Yeah. I would say, yeah, i and like your speed, the speed of your record, most people listening, most people are going to do a 33 RPM record.

00:42:48.42
Isobel Anderson
I've been there.

00:42:56.74
Jenn
But if you know were exploring 45 with your record pressing plant, you might want to list that on the label. There was a really funny thing when Taylor Swift put out her record at 45, and it wasn't mentioned or people didn't know how to swap their turntable over to 45 and everybody thought it was a man singing.

00:43:18.42
Jenn
So it was kind of a joy for some of us just because it's so funny.

00:43:23.35
Isobel Anderson
Yeah. Yeah.

00:43:24.12
Jenn
But yeah.

00:43:24.100
Isobel Anderson
And, and again, it's one of these things i i I have to ask, you know, for people who are completely new to vinyl, what, why would you do 45 RPM as opposed to 33? And that's rotations per minute.

00:43:37.32
Jenn
Mm hmm.

00:43:38.11
Isobel Anderson
Yeah.

00:43:38.38
Jenn
It just it allows for more more material. So you can have it'll sound really nice. It'll be more space, but it's going to be more expensive because of that.

00:43:49.36
Jenn
Like if you think of Queens of the Stone Age, a lot of times they will cut and press all of their stuff at 45. Taylor Swift did. But. It's not necessary. It can just be something that you wanted to do to kind of give the space to the music.

00:44:07.67
Isobel Anderson
Yeah. Okay, great. So we've now got our artwork and sleeve and everything formatted. The designer says, yes, it's great. The test presses have been approved. What then happens?

00:44:22.30
Jenn
So then I'm looking at your job and I'm saying, okay, is everything here? Do we have the labels? Do we have all the print? Is everything ready? Do we have the PVC? Once we have all the parts, it's considered workable. So your test pressing is approved, your prints on site, and we have the PVC. We're ready to go. So now I'm going to get it scheduled. And when we schedule that to press, then, you know,

00:44:46.80
Jenn
Gold Rush is a little bit different in that we can, once it's shortlisted or it's scheduled to press, you'll have your record within two weeks. It kind of depends on the pressing plant and how they schedule. But once it's scheduled, the press op will take your stampers. They'll put your A side on one side of the press and your B side on the other. Your labels will have been baked to remove the moisture.

00:45:08.88
Jenn
If we don't remove the moisture from the paper, when we press them, they will explode in the press, which creates a really cool effect, but not something that you want on your record.

00:45:13.71
Isobel Anderson
Wow.

00:45:16.15
Isobel Anderson
No.

00:45:19.70
Jenn
A misconception is that those are stickers, and actually go into the press, so we'll put those on the corresponding sides.

00:45:20.34
Isobel Anderson
Mm.

00:45:25.02
Isobel Anderson
wow okay

00:45:27.82
Jenn
And then we'll fill the hopper of the machine with whatever color you're going to press. And so the hopper pulls from that PVC, which look like colored lentils is the best way to describe it. And so whatever color it is, you will heat up into long band. And that's called your extrusion.

00:45:52.56
Jenn
and that is heating up in this big screw in the press and then that forms enough to create a puck or a biscuit and then that puck or biscuit goes into the press between your stampers and between your center labels and then with tons of pressure presses your music into that record.

00:46:12.70
Isobel Anderson
Right.

00:46:14.27
Jenn
There are

00:46:14.22
Isobel Anderson
It's making me think, I know I keep ah talking about food, but it's making me think of tortillas. So, you know, you get those little tortilla presses, get your little bowl of dough and yeah, you press it.

00:46:24.89
Jenn
It's exactly, yeah, or like a waffle maker.

00:46:25.64
Isobel Anderson
Yeah. Yeah.

00:46:27.86
Jenn
It's like because the molds on the press that hold your stampers, they're smashing it. And then whatever excess is actually gonna like come out the sides just like a tortilla or a waffle press.

00:46:40.88
Isobel Anderson
Wow. Yeah.

00:46:42.92
Jenn
And that gets cut off and that's what's called your flash. And then your record goes to a cooling plate where it sits to be ready for QC and pack out.

00:46:52.71
Isobel Anderson
Awesome. Okay. it's so interesting. Like there's so many parts of that process I had no idea about at all. And it it just, it feels like it must be such an interesting process to watch.

00:47:04.70
Isobel Anderson
You know, there's all these different types of material and these different processes and there's like heat involved and metal and cooling and, you know, cuts.

00:47:05.35
Jenn
Yeah.

00:47:13.92
Isobel Anderson
And it's really, it's really and like, obviously i I kind of knew on a level, like that's obviously what it consisted, but just hearing you talk about it, it's really fascinating. It's so detailed, like the process is so, it's a craft.

00:47:23.88
Jenn
Yeah.

00:47:28.71
Isobel Anderson
It's like what people always say, but it really is so tactile.

00:47:33.55
Jenn
It is. It's really fun, and it never gets old. I mean, because you're always creating a new color or a new package for someone. The whole science behind all of it, it really is such an exciting and interesting process. I think that the more people know about physical media and why women in vinyl are so important in educating that is because Not only are these really scientifically trade-based careers, but also there are so many people involved in making a record.

00:48:02.63
Jenn
And I think that you an artist may not always realize how many people are going to touch your record throughout the process.

00:48:02.68
Isobel Anderson
Yeah.

00:48:07.81
Isobel Anderson
Yeah.

00:48:08.90
Jenn
And so people might you get frustrated with a pressing plant or because something is happening that isn't in line with maybe the goal that they set out for a release date. But it's like, you have to think about all of those different things and where something could go wrong.

00:48:20.03
Isobel Anderson
Uh huh.

00:48:23.98
Isobel Anderson
Yeah so I have to ask you know you've outlined that process I mean I know there's then that the kind of final stage is packing it and shipping it so of that that whole process um that you've just ah laid out for us Jen how much time do you recommend artists leave?

00:48:41.52
Isobel Anderson
And I know, I know it's a bit like how long is a piece of string, but on average, how much time do you think a safer artist to leave from delivering their, their master tracks to you and their artwork and everything to getting that finished vinyl back in their hands?

00:48:43.69
Jenn
You know, so, you know.

00:48:56.43
Jenn
Well, fortunately, since the pandemic, things have gotten much better. So you may have heard that things were a year turn time.

00:49:00.39
Isobel Anderson
Okay. Yes.

00:49:05.01
Jenn
And thankfully, that's not the case anymore. So now I would say industry standard probably about 10 weeks. You might find people that can do it quicker. You might find people are a little slower.

00:49:14.95
Jenn
But I think that that is a good plan. it will you know if you get it done faster great now you're ready to market and go sooner but you know otherwise you've planned for enough time on the release.

00:49:30.50
Isobel Anderson
Yeah, that's really um lot better than I was thinking you were going to say. And yeah, I remember people releasing things in the pandemic and it was just, you know, shocking. So, I mean, I always say to people, I always recommend that people have their master tracks ready before they go into a release mode. And if they're releasing an album that they give themselves six months between having the master tracks and the album being released,

00:49:54.75
Isobel Anderson
and so yeah, that, that kind of timeframe would be very comfortable for getting your, your album pressed to vinyl.

00:50:02.29
Jenn
Yeah, absolutely.

00:50:03.08
Isobel Anderson
Yeah.

00:50:03.85
Jenn
Because you assuming that you are ready with audio and art, then it should be a very smooth process. If we're having to chase you down for things, that's where it can get extended.

00:50:14.20
Jenn
And I think a lot of people think, if I tell you 10 weeks and you've submitted your audio, but I don't have art for four more weeks, that that timeline still stands. And it's like, well, I have all of these moving parts that I'm tracking for all of these

00:50:27.46
Jenn
if you don't get your art in when you need to have that in that can push your job back. And so looking at the requirements for that I think are really important too because print is something that's still taking a little bit longer just generally.

00:50:32.69
Isobel Anderson
Yeah.

00:50:40.34
Jenn
And so if you have that ready the sooner the better for us to be able to press your project.

00:50:46.00
Isobel Anderson
Yeah that's really good to know and I think that a lot of people who may be new to releasing, even when someone's not releasing vinyl, I will try and get people to finish the recording process first or the production process I should say because including mixing and mastering and all of that.

00:51:04.47
Isobel Anderson
I will try and get them to do that first before they even go into releasing because were even without making vinyl, it's a lot. It's a lot kind of contacting press, doing social media promotion, trying to book some gigs to promote the release, know, the list goes on. And so factor in vinyl on that too. I think it's just another argument for not trying to do it all at the same time.

00:51:25.20
Jenn
Yeah.

00:51:25.67
Isobel Anderson
Because if you haven't released, it you can kind of think, well, can't be that bad. It is a lot. And it's so worth doing. It's so worth backing yourself and your music. And I think vinyl was a really, really special part of that process that, you know, different musicians at different stages may want to add in. It's not going to be for everyone. It won't be for every release. But I think it's really worth giving it the time and the attention that it deserves and kind of just taking a step back and giving it that space.

00:51:53.28
Jenn
Absolutely. And I mean, it's a really great way for you to make money back as an artist. It does feel like a lot upfront and it is a lot upfront.

00:52:01.27
Isobel Anderson
Mm hmm.

00:52:01.37
Jenn
But when you figure, you know, depending on what your complete package looks like, if you're getting a record for five, six dollars, even up to $10 and you can double by charging 20, $25 for that.

00:52:14.17
Jenn
I mean, that's just all profit at that point.

00:52:16.89
Isobel Anderson
Yeah, I think it makes a lot of sense for artists who have maybe released a couple of things before they're building a fan base. And they know that if they order 200 vinyl, they are very likely to shift them at gigs and with online sales.

00:52:32.20
Jenn
Yeah.

00:52:32.70
Isobel Anderson
I think if you're listening and you're in that position, it's definitely something to consider for sure. And I also think if you're someone listening that's like, well, I'm not sure I'm in that position, but I just really want my music on vinyl.

00:52:43.70
Isobel Anderson
That is legitimate.

00:52:45.38
Jenn
Yeah.

00:52:45.54
Isobel Anderson
You know, that is valid. Like you're only on this planet once. So why not press your music to

00:52:50.34
Jenn
Absolutely, yeah.

00:52:52.28
Isobel Anderson
So you know if you if you have the money or you raise the money or you find the funding to do it, I think that's completely legitimate, even if you're not sure you have that fund base right now.

00:53:02.76
Isobel Anderson
Yeah. So I'd love to talk to you now, Jen, about the developments in vinyl, because specifically to do with making more sustainable vinyl releases, I now keep seeing so many more artists who are sharing that they're really glad that the materials they've used are eco-friendly or recycled. Can you tell us a bit about the options if we are concerned about, you know, our footprint on the planet when we're making our record?

00:53:30.27
Jenn
Yeah, I mean, I think there are a few things. The most cost-effective option would be to ask the pressing plant if they can use regrind. There has been a misconception that regrind doesn't sound good, which is not correct.

00:53:45.42
Isobel Anderson
What is regrined, Jen?

00:53:46.79
Jenn
So regrind is whenever we're QCing a record, if there is a pressing flaw like a pop, tick, whatever, you can punch out the center label and take that plastic and put it in what is like a big wood chipper, essentially, and it cuts it back down into little pieces and can be reused. So instead of that plastic going into a landfill, it's being reused to press a record.

00:54:11.99
Jenn
A lot of pressing plants will use or offer re-grind same color as black as a random color mix. And so it could be a really fun way to have each record be completely different and um you're reusing plastic.

00:54:29.23
Jenn
So that's a really cost effective way to do it. You can also look into recycled board for your jacket. It will have, the inside will look sort of like a cereal box because it is reused. So it won't be that pristine white. So that's something to keep in mind, but that is an option as well. And then, you know, as far as we were talking about supporting your local pressing plant,

00:54:53.33
Jenn
One of the biggest factors in being more eco-conscious is getting records that you can pick up or that don't have to ship across oceans. Because the freight, the planes, all of that is a huge environmental factor to consider that I think a lot of people aren't thinking about. They're just thinking about the product itself.

00:55:15.73
Jenn
As far as innovations in eco-friendly vinyl, there is something called bio-vinyl. Europe and the UK are really ahead of us in that because there's a lot of more strict guidelines for what can and can't be used.

00:55:33.63
Jenn
But BioVinyl is essentially the same as our normal PVC, but it's being created from oils like if you were to have old car that you created off to run off of like fry, like french fry or chip oil.

00:55:49.65
Jenn
It's similar to that in the process of how it's made. So some pressing plants are adopting that. There's also ah ah ocean plastics, like recycled plastics in that way. We're finding that it isn't, we need to make sure that the quality is as good and that's where we're having some issues, how we're pressing it and that all of our machinery can kind of take it and make it sound as good as regular records.

00:56:13.61
Isobel Anderson
Mmhmm.

00:56:14.76
Isobel Anderson
Yeah.

00:56:16.13
Jenn
There's also a company called Green Vinyl. They're actually based in the Netherlands and the US, and they are injection molding the records, which is interesting. They're still using the same kind of cutting and plating process, so that part is still not really the best, but injection molding is using a PETG plastic, which different from regular PVC. So it's definitely at the top of mind for everybody in record pressing right now. I would say, honestly, this year and going into next year, it's sort of the hot topic for everybody.

00:56:52.91
Isobel Anderson
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. That's really useful to know. I think there'll be a lot of people listening who are wanting to make their releases as carbon neutral as possible.

00:57:02.38
Jenn
Yeah.

00:57:02.94
Isobel Anderson
So thanks for laying those options out for us, Jen. I'm also thinking of people listening who are maybe curious about, you know, having a career in the vinyl industry.

00:57:14.95
Isobel Anderson
particularly women and gender non-conforming people. So what kind of advice would you give someone that who's thinking, this sounds really fascinating. This process is, you know, just so cool. How do I get involved in this? How do I make this into my career?

00:57:30.36
Jenn
Well, that's what we're here for.

00:57:32.17
Isobel Anderson
Yeah.

00:57:34.42
Jenn
Yeah, so one really exciting thing about Women in Vinyl and the Women in Vinyl community is that everybody is very open to talking, collaboration, answering questions.

00:57:45.13
Jenn
So, if there's something about this process that you heard that's really interesting to you, if you go to our website on the front page, you'll see a ah box that says features. And if you click on that, there's a search bar at the bottom and you can search for plating, electroplating, pressing plant, cutting, mastering, and find people that are doing the jobs that we just talked about.

00:58:06.97
Jenn
And I would say over 95% of the time, those people are willing to talk to you about what they do. And at the bottom of every single feature, it's how to get in touch with them. So they'll provide whatever social media or ah ah website that they feel comfortable sharing. And I would say reach out to them and ask if you could set up a call or you you're interested in the industry and would like to talk to them.

00:58:32.07
Jenn
We also have a job board on our site, and so it's free for companies to post. I would keep an eye on that. And then, yeah, you know, Big Sky, the goal with Women in Vinyl is I want to create educational programs at colleges for this because there's no reason why a company or a college with an audio program doesn't have the ability to buy a lathe and make that a class.

00:58:59.89
Jenn
You know, and without these being educational programs, there's no real way unless you're going to find somebody to apprentice under to do them. And so that is really our goal is to create jobs and educational programs for these careers.

00:59:18.18
Isobel Anderson
Okay, yeah. Well, I can really imagine that if you were studying engineering to get the chance to actually press final would just be, you know, a dream. It's like, it's like using reel to reel tapes or any of those, you know, kind of legacy technologies.

00:59:34.14
Isobel Anderson
It's just, yeah, it's so different just getting your hands on it.

00:59:35.93
Jenn
Yeah.

00:59:39.11
Isobel Anderson
And the other thing I was wondering is, so that's really useful here as well, hearing about the features section on Women ah women Vinyl. So of course, go to the link to the Women and Vinyl website and have a look at that if you're listening and you're curious. I was wondering, just before we sort of finish up,

00:59:56.58
Isobel Anderson
Just in your view, what kind of impact do you think that women and gender minorities have made on the vinyl industry over the years? Because I think that a lot of the time, like we said at the top of this conversation, people don't really associate women with vinyl in lots of ways. But yeah, yeah, can can you kind of give us your perspective on the impact they actually have made?

01:00:20.98
Jenn
I mean, it's huge really. We spoke on our podcast to educator Carolyn King. She actually just got her doctorate in vinyl. She's Dr. Vinyl and she's actually in the UK and we spoke with her about her study on it which actually goes all the way back to when vinyl was first being marketed and Women were the ones who were setting up those the turntables and you know buying them as a household piece and it became when you know collecting started happening and Men are perceived to have this you know better understanding of science and technology that it became sort of this boys club and

01:01:06.40
Jenn
Really, if you look at our herstory of women in vinyl, there's been women who have been doing this from you field recording mastering to creating technologies that we use today. and Now, I think it's so important to have women and female identifying non-binary people in these groups and these careers because Without diverse points of view and different backgrounds and coming from different perspectives, we can't innovate this industry. And so that's really at a point where we're at in record pressing and in this whole physical media process is we're doing things very similarly to how we've always done them. And so by getting these different viewpoints, we can really find ways to innovate and make this a long lasting and hopefully more environmentally friendly process.

01:01:59.11
Isobel Anderson
Well, thank you so much for coming on the podcast to talk to us today about the vinyl process and new innovations and the women who have impacted this industry and everything else. It's been fascinating and I'm sure that everyone listening has found it really, really useful.

01:02:17.08
Jenn
Thank you for having me, it's been fun.

01:02:19.38
Isobel Anderson
Excellent.